Lori Forouzandeh vs. Ahreeman X: Philosophy

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Lori Forouzandeh vs. Ahreeman X: Philosophy

Postby IPC » Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:02 am

Dialogue of LOJ and AX (Philosophy) I

Dear Lori:

I am reposting the dialogue from the beginning and under a proper
title. Lets post under the same title, so all the posts remain under
the same thread & it will be more practical for the reader to follow.

====================

KojaX wrote:
"Regarding Iranian situation:
Revolution is a Change Forward,
Reaction is a Change Backward,
Reform is Stagnation in one place,
Creation is a sweet Children's Story,
Evolution is a map for an Evolved Brain,
Religion is a Contagious Infection of the Mind!"


LOJ writes:
Reactions are dependent upon what specific reaction is displayed, if
the reaction was something positive like starting a revolution then
it would'nt necessarily be a change backward.

Creation can be a childrens story if the parents make up a nice
bedtime story, but also Creation exists in the intellectual minds of
those with great imaginations since they are able to see beyond our
realm of reality. Creation comes from the minds of those that
dare think outside the bun:) It requires consistency in the heart of
the individual and a passion that surpasses any evolutionist. It also
requires unconditional love for an entity that we have not yet seen,
so in a way people who want changes in Iran have the same traits as
this....they have unconditional love for their homeland, yet they
have not seen the results as of yet...at least tangible ones.
Creationism requires persistence, dedication and undergoing the pains
of those that mock them or try to refute their claims or beliefs.
And most of all Creation requires speaking ones opinion out in the
open...and last I heard opinions are not crimes nor taboos.

Evolution is something easy for people to follow, it doesn't require
any thinking, just conformity based on what someone claimed or
anothers theory. Evolution is an easy way out rather than
questioning the middle ground between two theories (i.e. Evolution vs
Creation). Evolution is based on likeness and recognition of
familial traits that are passed on from generation to generation or
species to subspecies. But then again we have ants that use
teamwork to get the job done, yet so do people so does this make us and
evolvement from ANTS?:)

Evolution are for those that can't or don't want to question the
conflicts that arise within the two theories, they opt out for pure
dedication to something that they still have no clue on how to solve
the missing link....although your kids (if you ever have any, ALLAH
FORBID:)) might be good research material to solve this missing link
and conquer yet another controversial theory. Evolutionist like
to use justifications that were written by someone else centuries ago,
who've they claimed to be their mentors in life. THINK FOR
YOURSELF.....Give me some of YOUR reasons for believing in Evolution
other than, you hate the one thing that has given you a bad taste in
your mouth pertaining to Creation, so you opted to go for evolution
to spite creation.....btw: Islam and the Mullahs are what I'm
assuming gave you the bad taste for religion.

Religions all started out as good and all have the same thread of
underlying kindness and faith....but somewhere along the way the
greedy people in top positions manipulated all the words to benefit
themselves and made religion as a form of prejudice within
itself.

EG. Most Catholics are middle to upper class people therefor most
Catholics are the biggest hypocrites that exist (not all, I'm sure
there are some good ones) they discriminate against those that honor
their presence with less than good money or looks, it's all based on
a Pleb like society which results in discrimination. I accept all
religions but follow none, but I hold fast to believing that they all
started out as good, but gave some people the excuse they needed to
convert to Atheism.

Religion is a war within the conscience.....if you have a strong
sense of "right or wrong" then chances are you have religious beliefs
buried somewhere deep within the recesses of your mind.

OK there I said my peace for the week....time for beddy by.....

Luvs, LOJ

==========================

Scandalous Black Widow Writes:

<Reactions are dependent upon what specific reaction is displayed, if the reaction was something positive like starting a revolution then it would'nt necessarily be a change backward.>


There is only one kind of Reaction & it goes backward. Dear, we are
talking political reaction, & not muscular reaction or biological
reaction! I believe you got your medical fields mixed up with
politics & philosophy! It would be nice for you to review the
definition of the word, politically and not medically! take your
nursing hat off & put your "Influential Mentor" hat on! Will ya?!

I am pointing @ the moon & there you fail & only see the tip of my
finger.Â
Â
<Creation can be a childrens story if the parents make up a nice
bedtime story, but also Creation exists in the intellectual minds of
those with great imaginations since they are able to see beyond our
realm of reality.>


I believe you got Science Fiction's definition mixed up with
Creation! Dear, what have you taken when writing this piece? Maybe a
little Hallucinogenics or Mushroom? Just a little Pick A Loo?!!
(Googly Eye) :roll:

Get your definitions straight, will you?! Imagination, out of realm,
well thats Sci Fi to me!

< Creation comes from the minds of those that dare think outside
the bun:) It requires consistency in the heart of the individual and
a passion that surpasses any evolutionist.>


Well ye, ahhhhhh, Evolutionists talk 2 + 2 = 4 & they seek science &
scientific evidence.

Creationists seek Supreme Being in the skies of LaLa Land & search
for bizarre magicians who brought his words to them thousands of
years ago!

< It also requires unconditional love for an entity that we have
not yet seen,>


This one was really really really Out There! Unconditional Love for
someone we have not seen yet! Only a Creationist with a weak mind can
believe so! At least you can justify having unconditional love for
me, because you saw my photos & you saw me transforming myself from
Web Cam into your bed & under blanket, but hey, unconditional love
for God?! A nonexistent invisible being in the sky created by your
imagination?! Praise Allah!

< so in a way people who want changes in Iran have the same traits as this....they have unconditional love for their homeland, yet they
have not seen the results as of yet...at least tangible ones.>


This comparison was the most illogical comparison that I have seen
during philosophical debates! You have compared existence of an
element (God) to the existence of a situation (Freedom Seeking for
Iran)! Then you used the Situation as an evidence to prove the
existence of an Element! In a way you shown the proof that a Walnut
exists in a Jungle; therefore, you proved that the Hazel Nut must
also exist in the same jungle! What the Frag was that? Is this how
Creationists debate philosophy? Ok heres another example of what you
done:

Ahreeman has a hole in his chin (Dimple); therefore, Ahreeman must
also have a hole in his privates (Vagina)!

This is your line o reasoning! Dear, you cannot compare apples with
oranges & then get a conclusion that orange exists because apple
exists! The situation in Iran can be explained logically, because
Freedom does exist elsewhere in the world! How will you use this to
explain God Scientifically? There is no way in hell to explain God as
a Spirit & via logical scientific evidence as the creator. You can
say Spirits exists & say yes they do, but we cannot prove they
created the universe. However we can prove your mind created God!

<Creationism requires persistence, dedication and undergoing the
pains of those that mock them or try to refute their claims or
beliefs. And most of all Creation requires speaking ones opinion out in the
open...and last I heard opinions are not crimes nor taboos.>


Actually Evolutionists have all above problems specifically & in a
closed society like Iran! Even in many walks of life in today's
America!
Â
<Evolution is something easy for people to follow, it doesn't require
any thinking, just conformity based on what someone claimed or
anothers theory. Evolution is an easy way out rather than
questioning the middle ground between two theories (i.e. Evolution vs
Creation). Evolution is based on likeness and recognition of
familial traits that are passed on from generation to generation or
species to subspecies. But then again we have ants that use
teamwork to get the job done, yet so do people so does this make us and
evolvement from ANTS?:)>


Does this sound like Word Games, Logic Twistation, Safsate (What
Sufis used to use as logic by twisting the facts around, comparing
two unequal elements & then to prove one via the other), illogical
line of reasoning and mixing the issues?!

Evolution, the study of it, the analyzation of it, takes brain &
thats why a few scientific minds believe in it!
Religion on the other hand is a set of rules & regulation & a bunch
of stories that creationists insist that it had happened in history.
Any Moron with two bits o bird brain can follow it & call himself a
Muslim, Christian, Judaist, Bahaii, etc.

This is why we have a few intellectuals & armies of the public in the
world.

<Evolution are for those that can't or don't want to question the
conflicts that arise within the two theories, they opt out for pure
dedication to something that they still have no clue on how to solve
the missing link....although your kids (if you ever have any, ALLAH
FORBID:)) might be good research material to solve this missing link
and conquer yet another controversial theory.>


The Evolutionist believe in the realities proven until today!
Tomorrow when the new realities will be proven, then the
Evolutionists will believe in them. Evolutionists are not Dogmatic.
They are flexible to believe in the most updated Scientific Theories
& realities. What today is considered logical & based on latest
theories of today, we believe in it as realities. Tomorrow, there
will be a new theory, then we will believe in that as realities.
However we can always reason about what we believe according to the
latest scientific evidence, so our realities are not dogmatic yet it
is evolving towards perfection. Our realities are changeable, thats
why we call it Evolution. However, there is only one fact & that fact
exists & it can be explained scientifically & if not now, then
sometime in the future.

Creationist on the other hand is a Dogmatic person who does not seek
questions & answers! He believes in stories told to him by
generations of his society in his bull Shiite holy books. Sometimes
he dares to question but then his Fanaticism, faith & ignorance shuts
him down & off!

When there is a question, the evolutionist either can answer it or
not. If he can answer it by bringing scientific evidence, then he
will, & if he cannot answer it, then he will state that according to
his uptodated scientific evidence, he cannot explain the element, yet
he is sure, in the future he will be able to define the element,
cause science is progressive & there will be much more discoveries in
the future & regarding all aspects of life including the mentioned
element. There is always a scientific explanation for everything.

But the creationist, right away seeks answer according to Mumbo
Jumbo! He creates a God & shifts all the responsibility to his God!
That is the easy way out of Thinking, Logic, & Reasoning! It was the
destiny, so he says!

This is why Brain Dead People are all Creationist & People with
Brains are always either in elementary level (Thinking Creationists)
or in the medium level (Questioning Creationists) or at the advanced
level (Evolutionists)!

< Evolutionist like to use justifications that were written by
someone else centuries ago, who've they claimed to be their mentors
in life. THINK FOR YOURSELF.....Give me some of YOUR reasons for
believing in Evolution other than, you hate the one thing that has
given you a bad taste in your mouth pertaining to Creation, >


Exactly! Give me your reasoning & not what Bible or Quran taught
you!? I give you my reasoning, according to science! I tell you very
clearly that All Holly Books are crap because the Universe,
specifically Earth has not been made in 6 days! There is an element
called Geology & Astronomy which clearly denies it! It took millions
& billions of years for us to get where we are today.

Then you will either go ahead & stick to your cock a mamie crap & say
its in the Bible, so it was 6 days! (What a logic) or like Neo
Christian Evolutionists (Oxy Moronic term), you come up with the
Universe or Earth was created in 17,000 years & each day in Bible
means a 1000 of our days or so........

Non of these nonsense Religious Mumbo Jumbo can be proven
Scientifically!

What is your evidence? You cannot prove the existence of a Supreme
Being via todays Science & what we base our knowledge is today's
science. As a scientific man, I believe in todays science until it
changes tomorrow. I cannot believe in Mumbo Jumbo written in Holly
Books by Charlatans like Jesus or Mohammed! What will be your
scientific evidence?

<so you opted to go for evolution to spite creation.....btw: Islam
and the Mullahs are what I'm assuming gave you the bad taste for
religion.>


That is a big part but not the only part. Religion is all crap.
Christianity is the largest crap! Specially Mormons! For God Sake,
Mormons twist history & according to Book of Mormon, Jesus Christ re
appeared after his crussification in America & amongst American
Indians! Tora, another pile o Shiite! Mouses parted the Red Sea with
his Schlong! Mohammed parted the Moon! Bahaollah seen prophecy! etc.

There are only two guys amongst all these bull Shiite religions who
truly had a brain & were philosophers & they were Zarathustra &
Buddha. However, their later followers & Holy Priests, created an
institution & organized religion out of their teachings & added 1000
more crap regulations to their teachings & created Zoroastrianism &
Buddhism! So Zoroastrianism & Buddhism of today, are also bunch o
crap! This crap was created by Mubed-e Mubedan & Buddhist Monks! all
religion are nonsense, even Hinduism & it's multiple Gods! Its all
superstition, illogical crap, supernatural escape & mumbo jumbo.

All prophets are crap & charlatans.

Only logical ones were Zarathustra & Buddha whom never claimed
prophecy & called themselves poets & Seekers.

Jesus was a Charlatan Healer & a Bastard
Mouses was a Magician
Mohammed was a Con Artist & a Murderer
Ali was a Thug
Mary was a pregnant unwed mother
Bahaollah was a charlatan con artist
Pagan Gods are fantasy
Hindus are in LaLa Land
Today's Zoroastrianism & Buddhism are twisted
The rest are all Bull Shiite

I am a man of science, give me scientific proofs, do not preach to me
what all these prophets wrote in the book! I do not give a Frag what
some bozo wrote in his book 1500 years ago or so.

These prophets were men ahead of their time, but then & not now!

Give me scientific proof?

You want God?

Darwin is God, Einstein is God, I am God!

So worship me, there are more benefits for you to worship me!
Specially French ones! :)

<Religions all started out as good and all have the same thread of
underlying kindness and faith....but somewhere along the way the
greedy people in top positions manipulated all the words to benefit
themselves and made religion as a form of prejudice within itself.>


Thats nonsense. All Religions are crap. All Prophets are Charlatans,
they were con artists in addition to Mohammed who was also a criminal
(Thief, murderer, child molester, rapist, .........)

PS: Zarathustra + Buddha never claimed prophecy so we must exclude
them! They were not prophets, they were just bright men ahead of
their times. Simple poets, writers & philosophers, thats all they
were..

So as long as Zarathustra & Buddha were not prophets, than my
statement goes for all prophets!

Once again:

All Prophets were charlatans & Con Artists, they were minds ahead of
their times, so they conned the illiterate public into believing
their prophecy by showing them miracles & prophecies! Their miracles
were con magics & their prophecies were simply visions of the future
due to their progressed minds.

< EG. Most Catholics are middle to upper class people therefor most Catholics are the biggest hypocrites that exist (not all, I'm sure there are some good ones) they discriminate against those that honor
their presence with less than good money or looks, it's all based on
a Pleb like society which results in discrimination. I accept all
religions but follow none, but I hold fast to believing that they all
started out as good, but gave some people the excuse they needed to
convert to Atheism.>


No religion started good! All religion were started due to ignorance
of the public & lack of Scientists during that era!

Religion gets created out of ignorance of the masses.

About Catholics, I do not know if Muslim are the most inferior Minds
or Catholics! How many Alter Boys should get their Asses torn for
Catholics to smell the truth?! How many Alter Boys should be victims
to Priests Hard Ons for Catholics to smell the Vaseline?! What can
you expect from the people who believe God impregnated Mary & Jesus
was born?! Then who the Frag was Joseph? If God made Mary pregnant,
then What was Joes Dick doing in Mary's Poon?! What was Joe doing in
stable playing banging the horsy with Mary?!

And the way the Anglican Church goes with it's Gay Bishops...........
there is a large possibility that why Jesus did not marry & have
kids! Hell, maybe he was Gay! Jesus was a Fag, a Water Walking Fag &
thats why he had no children!

<Religion is a war within the conscience.....if you have a strong
sense of "right or wrong" then chances are you have religious beliefs
buried somewhere deep within the recesses of your mind. >


I have a sense of what is wrong & what is right because of my Moral
Codes.

Religion is the infection of the mind.

Religious people lead a dual life, one holy on surface & one
perverted inside!

I have on role, I am the same all over! I am what I am & I reveal
what I am. I do not hide my inside nor outside. I do not pray to
Jesus in the Church @ Morning & then go Bang Neighbor's Wife @
evening!

The decency in me is due to my moral Codes.

Religion is all crap, Holy people are Charlatans, Religious people
are mentally inferior beings, weak & incapable to stand on their own
feet in times of crisis, so they need to escape to Allah, Lord or
Yahweh or some other Bozo!

Evolution is evidence of Science
Creation is a Good Story

Holy books are written for Bird Brain Adults in Stone ages.

Religion is the Opiate of The Masses! (I can kiss Marx on the lips
for this one!)

People with simple minds, incapable of thinking too much, having too
much fear of being abandoned without a God, need to create a God!
These are the people so gullible to accept Religion & then shift from
one to another! When they see evidence that their religion is all
Bull Shiite, then they switch to another, like Muslim convert to
Christianity or vise versa! They fail to see that all religion are
crap but they have only been revealed about the crapness of one
religion! This is why Cat Stevens & Casius Clay turn Muslim & many
Iranians turn Christians!

Give me a Church, a Mosque, a Temple, a Synagogue, a Holy place, make
me a member & after a few months, I'll be the top Pious person in
that establishment, a religious role model! I be banging all the
women in the congregation (married or not) & I'll be partner in
crimes with all men in their business & daily cons! I'll be even
partying with the Priest, Imam Juma' or Rabbi!

You see, the first girls who open their legs against their beliefs
are often Reverend's Daughter or Dohktar Haji or Dokhtar Mullah or
other pious daughters of pious parents!

Religion is Bull Shiite! What true words!
Â
<OK there I said my peace for the week....time for beddy by.....>


Are we going to bed now?! Hee Hee Hee...................

<Luvs, LOJ>


Low J indeed!

Dear Scandalous Woman,

There is nothing wrong with having a weak mind seeking for Allah or
other invisible men in the skies! Most of the world's population do
have weak minds!

Do not try to con a con artist! Do not use Evolutionist line o logic
to twist it around & use it against Evolution! We have been around
the globe & seen all lines o logics! Do not Bull Shiite a Bull
Shiiter! So far what I heard from you above were:

Sufistication (Sufis line of Word Games, Twisting The Truth, Mixing
Issues) or how we say it in Persian, Safsate!

Show me a better line of logic on your stand? Show me the money?

Now you can go to bed, oh........ not to forget to dream about me,
will ya? It's OK, I am the subject of many women's Dreams, and
Globally indeed! Married or not, its fine, Allah shall not punish you
for fantasies........Ahreeman Blesses All!

We belong to All, We cannot be stingy nor selfish & limit ourselves
to one!

Ahreeman Bless you my Daughter

Good Night

AX

======================

Dear Um' Islam (Om al Islam):

Ya LorAllah,

Without reading your latest remark on my latest article, I shall
state here that it would be nice for you to first respond to my last
article.

You see, I bring up an issue & write an article. Next thing we see,
is that you reject my points of view & state your views & remarks,
like you done many times before & for instance on this article "On
Bits O Wisdom". Afterward, I bring up a rebuttal, & shatter your
Fantasy Disney World & Fairy Tale Allaho_Islamo_Rebelo_Liberalo_Anglo
Universe. I shatter your cheesy line o reasoning on politics,
philosophy, history, and religion. My rebuttal cuts like a sharp
knife! Razor Edge Woman, Razor Edge! Next thing we see, is for you to
remain silence without a response! I mean, what can you say? Logic
talks & Bull Shiite Walks! Pardon me dear, but I could not resist not
to make that remark! I do not mean any harm!

So basically, you do not see the power within your soul to conduct a
logical head to head philosophical, political, historical or
religious argument with me; therefore, you release some cheap shots,
make some noise & then once I break all your cheesy bases for your
remarks, you keep silence like silence of the lambs but in your case
silence of the Black Widow!

Now have in mind, dear woman............ there is no shame to not be
able to go head to head in an argument with the Ahreeman. Not many
people can go head to head with me & conducting a debate. You have
witnessed many Big Shots to bite the bullets & shutten the hell up
when I started a dialogue with them! Big Shots of Jebhe Meli, Reza
Pahlavi, Arabo_Muslim Activists, Communist Activists, Baby
Intellectuals, Fruit Cake Liberals, our local Queen, many
others...................... all & all seized to exist than to face
the music of Dr. X!

To not to have the intellectual capability, sharp cutting logic,
background in history, information on religious studies, general
knowledge, power of argumentation techniques, philosophical base, and
the wisdom to conduct a dialogue with Ahreeman, is no shame. We do
not expect All to be like Ahreeman! There is only one Ahreeman. We
perfectly understand that there are a few living creatures who can go
head to head conducting a discussion with us (some are on Earth) & we
are perfectly aware of this fact & accepted this harsh reality that
there are only few brilliant minds exist in the universe, who can
give us an argument & make our money worth of a dialogue! We are of
the few challenging minds exist! So accept the harsh fact, there is
no shame, to not being able to debate us!

But the amazing issue is that, over & over, we have started an
argument, you released some cheesy comments & once we came up with
the rebuttal, you seized to respond, yet you got stuck in the
Quicksand or the Swamps (take your choice), like a Persian Donkey in
the Mud! Like a Donkey you drowned in silence and in the mud without
another word or a sound! Yet strangely, once again, we start another
topic & yet you once again start releasing cheesy comments on this
new one without finishing the last debate!

Are you just making cheesy remarks without a logical base & on my
statements?
or
Are you the woman of the battle field sticking with your thoughts &
willing to defend your stands with reasoning?

If you cannot stand up for your stands & face the music or in this
case face Ahreeman, then for Allah's Sake, stick with releasing
cheesy propaganda in the forms of informative posts with links to the
media, like many others do in IPC. If you do not have the power of
argumentation, then release some propaganda posts like many other IPC
members do & for Prophet's sake, stop starting a debate without
having the balls or poonani to finish it!

Face Ahreeman or post cheesy propaganda or news posts like many
others! But for Allah's sake stop making silly remarks to our sheer
line o logics in our posts, just for the sake of saying something!
Stand your ground & argue with Ahreeman! Its OK, Ahreeman is
forgiving, & merciful, he will respond to your rhetorics, no matter
how elementary they might be!

You are so lucky that I am envious to you! You know why? You have the
pleasure of being an IPC member where Shangri_La (IPC) is the only
place on the net that Ahreeman conducts his arguments, posts & reads
all the posts from All members! You have the privilege of actually
speaking to Ahreeman! Girl, you are really lucked out! Ahreeman
ignores the whole Internet & posts only here & you have the honor to
speak to him & argue with him! Girl you are one lucky soul! I am
jealous! Girl, many wish to speak to him but they are either having
language barrier to do so or intellectual barrier to do so or they
are simply too shy or not worthy of his company! But you are of the
privileged ones! Boy you are lucky!

I was under the impression that you are a Great Scholar, Powerful
Debater, Influential Mentor, Knowledgeable Philosopher, deep author,
& a Wise Woman, so what happened woman? Whats with the Hit & Run &
Fingering our speech & running away in the dark? Stop the Finger &
Run! Be a real woman! Stick with the issue before you jump to another
one! Take a stand woman, stand up for your rights! Many people around
here look up to you as a knowledgeable scholar (specially Arabs of
Southern Gulf), do not disappoint them Lambs O Allah!

Praise Allah!

Ahreeman Bless you my Daughter....................

Sign,

Watcher in the woods

============================

When belief overrides debate and logic then I simply am quiet due to
being able to change the outcome, sorta like after 2 donkeys mate all
that comes from it is an ass! Get it?
There is no logic left with this arguement (debate) you have your
simplistic views and I have mine, the problem with closed minded
individuals is that they fail to see anyother point of view, even for
a moment in time. They are steadfast to their views regardless of
what others think or view. The true intelligence lies within the
mind that is able to change their view when other possibilities enter
their realm that might contain some views that are sensible.
Change is constant continuum, those able to adapt to this are the
intellectual thinkers....

As for priviledges....PULEEEEEASE!!!!! You are so full of shiite that
I have pathetic empathy for your woman of the moment!
The priveledge lies with shmoi:)

Luvs, Lori


=======================
Last edited by IPC on Sun Feb 20, 2005 5:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby IPC » Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:09 am

Dialogue of LOJ and AX (Philosophy) II

Ok this might not be a debate in the way you see debates Doc, but
this is what I felt should be said.

I want to begin this debate with a quote that I thought apropo:)

Thanks to that quote of the day! Astro or Paul...not sure which.

Moral certainty is always a sign of cultural inferiority. The more
uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is
right and what is wrong. All human progress, even in morals, has been
the work of men who have doubted the current moral values, not of men
who have whooped them up and tried to enforce them. The truly
civilized man is always skeptical and tolerant, in this field as in
all others. His culture is based on "I am not too sure."

-- H.L. Mencken

Ok now on with the debate.....

First I want to address the logic issue so that Doc does not think
his logic is 100% accurate:)

Human logic is defective

If we live by human logic, we will never, ever have a reliable
foundation upon which to live. Logic is arguable. It is subject to
endless scrutiny and reevaluation. And it is ultimately unstable.
Without a supremely superhuman source of logic, mankind is forever at
risk of self-destruction. Our destiny could only be a horrific
societal fission resulting from irreconcilable differences in logic.

We desperately need infallible logic

But we have no power to create this superhuman logic that could truly
lead us. Unless it already exists outside and independently of human
intellect, we are doomed. But I believe...

Now my point of view....of courseJ


There is Divine Logic

Someone really is behind all of this. We are thoughtfully created.
Even if the universe is as many billions of years old as some say,
the possibilities that mankind has evolved to its present form
entirely without any thoughtful guidance is utterly ridiculous.
English scientists of a Christian persuasion computed the
mathematical possibilities of even ONE human being evolving from
nothing in as many billion years, and found the answer to
be "literally impossible". How many times would you have to stir
twenty million letters of the alphabet to get a dictionary? THAT
would be infinitely more likely!

Now my medical knowledge is determined to intervene!


Homeostasis

In medical science, the human body is shown to be a heterogeneous
composition - many organisms. Not one member of the body can function
apart from the whole body.

The all-encompassing responsibility of the brain to the body is a
function called homeostasis. Homeostasis does not address any
particular member above another. It is the simultaneous coordination
of all the members of the body for the overall performance of the
whole. It is the maintenance of proper temperature, chemical
balances, metabolisms, organ functions, etc. It is the fluid
performance of all the members in one spectacular symphony.

Now the dirt of it all...the core of the paradox that exists between
people and the truth that separates 2 individuals....

WHO IS GOD?

Because of the fundamental importance of this one issue to all
general discussions between atheists and theists, it is critical that
those who participate in such discussions have a better understanding
of just what it is they are talking about and why. After all, what's
the point of debating the possible existence of "God" if no one has
tried to come to some sort of agreement as to what they mean
by "God"?

Debates and disagreements between atheists and theists tend to center
over a single issue: gods, or at least whether or not any gods can or
do exist. The is the one thing which differentiates atheists from
theists - it isn't necessarily much of an issue, but it can be
magnified by a variety of other philosophical, social, and religious
matters.

Because of the fundamental importance of this one issue to all
general discussions between atheists and theists, it is critical that
those who participate in such discussions have a better understanding
of just what it is they are talking about and why. After all, what's
the point of debating the possible existence of "God" if no one has
tried to come to some sort of agreement as to what they mean
by "God"?

When a theist claims that a god exists, one of the first questions
atheists should ask is "what do you mean by 'god'?" Without
understanding what the theist means, the atheist simply cannot
evaluate the claim. By the same token, unless the theist is very
clear about what he means, he cannot adequately explain and defend
his beliefs.

Why Defining God is IMPORTANT!

It might seem to some that discussing the nature, attributes, and
character of a supposed god doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless
there is some reason to think that this god or even any gods exist in
the first place. After all, isn't discussing whether or not a god is
omnipotent or omniscient just a waste of time if we have no good
reason to suppose it even exists?

God is Perfect and Worthy of Worship.
Although there are a number of divine attributes which tend to
receive a lot of attention, there is none quite so important for
traditional believers as the general principle of absolute perfection
and the more narrow implication that, therefore, God is worthy of our
worship. These are, in many respects, the very reason why the
existence of God is the subject of so much debate - if it weren't for
them, there wouldn't be any religions centered around God and perhaps
people wouldn't be divided.

God is a Person; Peoples Personal relationships w/God.
For many people in Western religious traditions, the idea that God is
a "person" is a necessary and fundamental part of their beliefs.
Indeed, the very idea that God might not be a person is almost
inconceivable for that would render them unable to adequately explain
their religious history and their own religious experiences

In many religions throughout history, gods have been portrayed
variously as male and female, often embodying important masculine and
feminine attributes. The tradition of philosophical theism, however,
has had some difficulty with the issue of gender because of the
conflicts between religious beliefs and Greek philosophy.
God is the Creator and the Sustainer of Life.

A very common attribute of gods in religious traditions around the
world is that of creation - our universe, our world, and indeed our
very selves often owe their existence to creative acts of the gods.
In the Western traditions of philosophical theism, the existence of
everything is owed to a single creative act by a single perfect God.
God is Omnipotent.

What does it mean to be all-powerful? At its most fundamental level,
the concept of "omnipotence," also sometimes known as all-powerful,
refers to God's ability to do absolutely anything God wants. This
characteristic is usually treated as implied from God's
characteristic as absolute creator. If God is capable of creating all
of existence (whether ex nihilo or ex deo), it is felt that it would
be nonsensical to then proceed to assert that there are things beyond
God's abilities. Any being capable of creating existence itself must
therefore be capable of anything at all - right?
God is Omnibenevolent.

What does it mean to be all-loving? The concept of "omnibenevolent"
stems from two basic ideas of God: that God is perfect and that God
is morally good. Therefore, God must possess perfect goodness. Being
perfectly good must entail being good in all ways at all times and
towards all other beings. This, then, is what it means for God to be
omnibenevolent - but there remain questions. First, what is the
content of that goodness and second what is the relationship between
that goodness and God?

God is Omniscient.

What does it mean to be all-knowing? At its most fundamental level,
the concept of "omniscience," also sometimes known as all-knowing,
refers to God's ability to know absolutely everything. This
characteristic is usually treated as a consequence of one of two ways
in which God exists: either because God exists outside of time, or
because God exists as part of time.

God is Provident & Sovereign.

Although not usually given much attention in most debates, one
critical attribute of God for many believers is the idea that God
is "provident," which means that God acts in some fashion that
requires God to become involved with humanity and causes the course
of human history to be aligned with God's ultimate desires and
purposes.

God is Free: Constraint vs Freedom.

One attribute which does not receive a lot of individual attention,
but which is commonly assumed when discussing other attributes, is
the idea that God is absolutely and perfectly free. What this means
is that there is a total absence of any constraints or force or
limitations on God whenever God acts - for God, freedom is absolute.
God is Immutable; Why can't God change.

Philosophical theism commonly ascribes to God the attribute
of "immutable" - the idea that God cannot and does not change.
Whatever God is like now is the way that God was for all of the past
and the way God will be for all of the future. It doesn't matter what
happens anywhere else, God always and inevitably remains the same.
God is Eternal: Timeless vs Everlasting

God is commonly portrayed as being eternal; however, there is more
than one way to understand the concept of "eternal." On the one hand,
God may be thought of as "everlasting," which means that God has
existed through all of time. On the other hand, God may be thought of
as "timeless," which means that God exists outside of time,
unconstrained by the process of cause and effect.

God is Transcendant and Immanent.

What is God's relationship to Creation? On the face of it, the
characteristics of transcendence and immanence appear to be in
conflict. A transcendent God is one who is beyond perception,
independent of the universe, and wholly "other" when compared to us.
An immanent God, however, is one which exists within - within us,
within the universe, etc. - and, hence, very much a part of our
existence. But how can these qualities exist simultaneously? This is
where people, countries and cultures differ.

God is Incorporeal; Mind without body?!

It is commonly taken for granted that, when talking about God, we are
discussing a being who has no body and is not in any way constructed
from matter or energy - both of which are features of the "created
universe" rather than the "uncreated God." This attribute of
incorporeality should not be taken for granted, however, because it
has important implications for other divine characteristics. After
all the Bible states that we were created in his image, which makes
me doubt all written research on God/Logic/Philosophy and the
combination of the three.

God is Necessary.....for some.

It might seem odd to list "existence" as an attribute of God, but
that's not actually the point here. Of course believers think that
their god exists - what is at issue is how God exists. According to
philosophical theism, God exists in a very special and unique way:
God's existence is necessary rather than contingent.

SYNOPSIS:

Whether you belive in God or not is not the real question nor should
it be torn apart like a lot of people and religions do, to do this
would refute everything God detests, like discrimination, acceptance,
and it above all creates chaos and prejudice amongst the masses. In
my opinion, which is not of the norm...I think:) is that God is a way
for many to get through life, it is their hope, if there were no hope
then why would we continue on with our beliefs or life itself. For
some God is a tool that is used to justify their hatred and
discontent with people and life. Yet others it gives them a false
reason to kill (EG. Jihad).

I myself am still in the midst of my learning process and probably
always will be, but what it basically comes down to is hope vs false-
pride (trying to prove that one's theories are the only correct
ones), it also is deduced to blind faith in an entity that we
convince ourselves that we must love which promotes goodness within
our social interaction (which isn't a bad thing) vs trying to fight
the world who do believe. People who actively debate God and religion
are people who try only to emulate themselves as the know it alls.

It all falls into two choices, either you believe or you don't. No
theist can convince an atheist to convert whole heartedly since the
instinct of human nature is to prove oneself as right .......and feel
confident that your way is the only way. Yes we hear stories about
conversions and miracles, and some may happen, but for the most part
I believe both sides to promote propaganda to further their
cause....a means to justify the end...which is THEY ARE RIGHT.

Religion, spirituality, whatever you choose to call it is a personal
thing that only the individual can experience to a tangible degree.
Sure people can educate themselves on various religions and even
experiment with them to see which one fits their persona, but no
matter what religion they choose there is still a part of them that
retains that part that makes up the individual (the part that accepts
the religion but still holds tight to their own idiosyncratic beliefs
besides the dogma, the part that wouldn't be accepted by the whole of
the church). But this in itself is the individuals need to retain his
own identity/individuality.

Logic/Philosophy/Religion are all words, words that change with time,
words that compliment one another at times and words that contradict
as well. The only important thing that one needs to remember is that
we are all individuals capable of our own ideas and more importantly
in a country that allows us to follow these ideas as we choose.

My belief is there is no such thing as pure logic, pure philosophy or
pure religion, they all contain some positive and negative and it's
up to the individual to retain what they choose to believe about each
or disclaim all.

I do believe that all religions started out as decent, moral paths
with good intentions that brought about admirable behavior by some,
but somewhere along the way man corrupted it in one way or another,
which leaves a bad taste in a lot of peoples mouths.....therefore
some chose the path of atheism as a way of rebelling against the
atrocious acts of the church or religion. These people are not only
closing their minds to the aspect of an entity that could/is truly
good, but they are rebelling against society as a whole and using the
guise of religion as their excuse. Once more look at how the Qur'an
or the word Muslim has become an evil word in America. This is wrong!

In a perfect world every religion would be advocating decent behavior
and unconditional love not only for their God, but for their
neighbors as well....but then again we don't live in a perfect world
do we?

Have a great week!

LOJ


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Postby IPC » Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:11 am

Dialogue of LOJ and AX (Philosophy) III

Dear Lori:

As you insisted on the definition of God, we shall always define what is the element of God? Unlike Creationists who always seek for unknown elements, divine powers, supreme beings & unexplained phenomenon, the Atheists seek for scientific explanations according to the level of the human science up to now. Philosophy defines existence of three elements in the universe: Matters, Energies, Spirits & thats all. Philosophically speaking, the quality of God is "Spirit". I am sure, you already know the definitions & for others who might not know the definitions of these three elements, I suggest to read this:

Brain and Mind
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/philosophy/ ... /index.htm

The issue here is that Creationists claim spirit or Spirits created Matters & Energies & Evolutionists claim that Matters & Energies had created the spirits.

The whole concept of a supreme spirit creating every element in the universe is due to human being's limited mind who always seeks a creator. Human sees an object & then he assumes that a creator created it & then he goes ahead & expands on this all the way to the universe & then claims that God created everything. At this point human's limited mind comes to a halt! He cannot go beyond God & expand that who created God? At this point human seizes to expand his Creationist theories & sets rules & regulations! God becomes eternal with no beginning & no end! Who sets these rules? Human of course! Human sets rules like a game that God is eternal, God is all love, God is all good, God knows best, God has the best of people in mind, God created everything so divine & according to a plan, God must be worshiped, God is supreme, God sent prophets to Earth, etc.

Everything about this God including rules & regulations of the game has been created by man! This whole episode sounds like rules to a game. Some Ham bone Jehovah Witness in white suit sets his definitions straight & according to his Holy man & then philosophers like you color it more pretty & put a bow tie on it & define all the rules & come up with their own definitions of God. All & All, it comes down to:

Human being does not have the wisdom to question God, because God is superior, he knows best, he created everything & he is divine & good! Holy Shiite! This sounds like the definition of Master in Master & Servant scenario or Senior & Surf Scenario or Dominator & Submissive Scenario!

Basically, all of these explanations, tell man that you are a slave to your God, so obey without questioning him! God becomes the ultimate power beyond man's comprehension to question. God becomes man's master & man becomes God's servant, why? Because God has the best of man's in mind & God knows best.

You see, pardon my boldness but I simply cannot hold myself not to make a remark here! You claimed that without God, there will be no hope, no hope to live, no hope for future, no hope for embetterment, no hope for existence, no hope for.................

Long a go, there was this teenage girl who used to post in IPC about 4 years ago. She is still a member but does not post anymore. She moved to Iran! She used to live here but due to her parents moving there, she moved to Iran. This girl was extremely religious to the point that once she said:

'If one day I wake up & see that there is no God, it will be the same as having no reason to live & I do not want to live in that world"

That girl's statement & yours are basically similar! She was of course a ding bat dingy Muslim Bird Brain & you are a Big Shot Lady Philosopher Muslim Shiitess! But basically the same concept!

Just imagine, how entrapped & enslaved to her own sets of rules & to one's God or Master, one must be, that one day she gets ups & makes statements like this?! This is human slavery!

When the master keeps the slave away from others of her species for long & in isolation, then eventually the slave becomes obedient & submissive & domesticated. Once the slave becomes domesticated & merciful of her master, then she identifies as her master's girl! Next thing you know, the slave girl, becomes a property of her owner & even shows love & affection for the master! Eventually during the last steps of the domestication, the slave girl worships the master!

The relationship between God & Human is the same! The funny thing is that human created God but he is entrapped & enslaved by his own creation (God)! This is the ultimate entrapment & enslavement of the mind by human being, due to superstition! How can a thinking brain enslave herself the way creationists do? Well, obviously they do & majority of the globe are doing so!

We are not even breaking into other aspects of how silly is the concept of a supreme being, but lets concentrate on this issue. The belief in God is basically to accept your weakness as a human being, to accept you are not in control of your destiny, to accept God controls everything, to accept you are inferior to your master (God), that you are a slave to God, that no matter what you do still God decides your faith, that you are only a toy puppet among million other puppets created by God, that some invisible spirit has absolute power beyond all powers over you, that the whole universe is a toy factory & some toy maker called God made it all!

To me, this is the most primitive pattern of thought, easy way out of thinking, and production of a weak mind.

The Uber-Menschen (Nietzsche), does not need to create some invisible toy maker in the sky! The Uber-Menschen is the thinker who uses his superior brain & takes control of his destiny. The Uber-Menschen is in control of his body & mind. The Uber-Menschen is God. Va Alaykom ol Salam!

How can a thinking mind, an independent critical thinker, a free thinker, a superior mind, a logical mind, a thinking human being seeks for some God to rules her life as master to his servant? This is due to inferiority of brain. This is due to years of growing up in a society who teaches us religious mumbo jumbo superstitious rhetorics. This is due to years of society, parents & environment preaching garbage in our ears.

The Uber-Menschen is a strong being with a free mind, an independent mind who is in charge of his life; therefore, he is God.

The life of a person must be really empty & meaningless, if she cannot give a meaning to her life except by believing in an invisible guy in the sky! Think about it?

Uber-Menschen does not need God. Uber-Menschen creates all these Gods. Uber-Menschen is God.

But majority of the society does not consist of the Uber-Menschen now does it? Uber-Menschen are the elite thinkers of the globe. Uber-Menschen are the intellectuals of the world & the rest are only public. Public often is in need of a God to give meaning to his existence. Without the God, he is lost or better of dead!

In this world, Uber-Menschen rules over the public, simply because Uber-Menschen is a superior sub species of human in comparison to the public. Uber-Menschen are the true Super Men, The Supermen of the universe, the ones who lead the public scientifically. Public is always 20 steps to 100 steps behind the Uber-Menschen. That is why, some of these Charlatans (so called Prophets) had visions ahead of the Gav o Guspandan! So these Semi Uber-Menschen used to lead the public & make them believe in their blend of religion like Islam or Christianity. In fact, these charlatans were not full Uber-Menschen, cause the True Uber-Menschen seeks for progress, vision of futuristic harmony, superior global progress, yet many of these charlatans were wanna be Uber-Menschen only seeking to gather followers or cults by creating miracles!

Even these wanna be Uber-Menschen or Half Ass Uber-Menschen managed to gather the Gav o Guspand & make them believe in Islam or Christianity or Judaism or etc.

Gav o Guspand are cattle & cattle seeks superior minds to tell them how to live & how to buy a ticket to heaven & how to reserve a tent in behesht! Charlatans Wanna be Uber-Menschen, made a living out of conning the Cattle & created religions & thats how Islam, Christianity, Judaism, etc got created.

Religion is basically a brain virus, an infection of the mind.

Creators of these Religions were con artists who stole from pagans multi God System or Totem Worship & added some cocka meime stories to them & vallah, come out Uni God System & Religions!

Until this day, majority of human beings are incapable of a solo analysis, functioning, reasoning & logic; therefore, these weaklings seek prophet, God & Supreme Being & until this day, Uber-Menschen lives free as a bird thus he does not need a God thus he is God.

Gav o Guspand is still slave to Allah or Yahweh or Jesus & Uber-Menschen is in peace with his soul.

Yes dear Lori, in this world, we only have two kinds of human being:

Uber-Menschen & Public.
Uber-Menschen leads
Public follows

some of these sneaky wanna be semi Uber-Menschen, also manage to con the Folk into following them & this happens through out the history & they are called prophets!

I do not want to go any further expanding on many other aspects of the dialogue. There are many other issues involved that I need to attend to them on a later date but for now, I just wanted to address the concept that you brought up about the definition of God & elaborate on how primitive & elementary this concept can be!

Also, if Camran & others want to jump in the ring & get involved in this dialogue, I suggest for them to post under this topic "Dialogue of LOJ and AX (Philosophy)", so we can keep the dialogue in one thread, so it will be easy to refer back to it or for people to read & follow it. Avoid multi naming the title, so we can organize this dialogue series.

Well, now I need to go do some prayer! Do I need to tell you how I pray? Hee Hee Hee

Ahreeman Bless

Sincerely,

AX
Last edited by IPC on Sat Oct 06, 2007 12:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby IPC » Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:19 am

Dialogue of LOJ and AX (Philosophy) IV

Camran:

I repost this under the same title, you do not have to repost it again. I just read it & I have to say that your analogy specially a couple of them, truly impressed me! Sometimes you come up with amazing chain of logic! Heres a good one:

Camran:
"We put the lampshade on the table that is held by four legs, on the carpet, on the 1st floor of a building in a town, of a city, in a country on a continent of this planet in the solar system of the
universe. Now, if you move any of these collective particles, the
lamp will fall."


and this one:

Camran:
"If you we know what the steering of a car do, then how are we going to drive the damn car? If we don't know what we are; apart from being called human, then, a sudden jump at the Ultra far in
minds and thoughts that in practice cannot see the next step, not
to mention the eyes that can't even see in dark, not without those
ugly goggles anyway, the unreachable distance, then, how are
we going to find out it's identity."


Very impressive indeed! A new perspective of looking @ the old story.

thanks

AX

================

Camran writes:

Since you're in the middle of muddle between existence of all
everything or non of nothing else, super ultra god power and
nothingness, respectively, it'll leave me no choice but to agree
with you if I only knew where your nothingness would be, as
much as I know where your half belief on super being is.

The reason of this lacks of knowledge lie in the amount of your
description on the super being and non, on the opposite effects.
THIS is the cause of my confusion to find out your balance
between all on one side and non, on the other. In a simpler
manor, where/what would your opinion be on opposite direction
of super God, so I'd know which way to steer...to
avoid...possibility of clashes.

HOWEVER, you may agree, to conceptively knowing any particle,
we must practice from the smaller parts of such particle. In
analogy, to know a car, one must know at least the crucial parts
of it, such door, seats, steering, breaks, horn, lights, etc.

If, for example, a car has a break, then, it may divide in two
sections of Hydrolic and Mechanical, each section, divides in
further and so on, all the way to the very small particle which is
called ATOM. THEN, if you know about the atom of the break
fluid, you surely know all about the BREAK SYSTEM of such
section, or all of such concept.

NOW, you may agree we the life forms are made of particles.
These particles are formed by PLUTONS & NUROTONS, which
are the QUALITY & WORK respectively of surrounding
SUSTANCE of an ATOM, which in science called the STRING
THEORY with vibrant colours that constantly are flowing
everywhere empty or not, shaping form as they PLEASED.

STRINGS are the latest form of life for EVERYTHING ranging
visible or not, from here to the other of the other side of known
universe. They have ELEVEN DIAMENTIONS. Us humans have
only five, which after jumping over the forth (time), the latest one
is called PROBLEM.

STRINGS CREEP ON, AND SHAPE LIFE FORMS, COS
CONVENIENCE, THUS, GOOD LUCK/BAD LUCK.

ON THE OTHER HAND, we have QUANTUM MECHANICS that
outweighs any possibilities of probabilities. Means we cannot
possibly foresee any outcome. You may well ask for what we
want, but the outcomes such requests, are purely at QUANTUM
RANDOM RATES. Like having ten dices, and expecting them to
fall on the same number after throwing them on a floor, which
never happens while you are trying, but once we are not
watching, they fall all the same and somebody may be there to
see and benefit the shear luck/unluck. THAT IS
CONVENIENCE/INCONVENIENCE

In another words, THINGS ALREADY ARE HAPPENING, WE
HAPPEN TO BE THERE.

From this theory, we are all made from tiny particles that go
round and shape forms. I call it the shapes of
convenience/inconvenience.

These particle shape what is convenience or not to form. May it
be a COW, TRAIN, SEA, ANYTHING AT ALL, including the all four
elements DNA itself. the earth, moon, sun, light & energy,
magnetic, you name it, it's formed. Incidents of stricking gold or
hitting a lorry. WE are the carriers of these STRINGS to a as
good use as we can.

These particles form themselves wherever is suitable, at
random. We are just the instruments

We put the lampshade on the table that is held by four legs, on
the carpet, on the 1st floor of a building in a town, of a city, in a
country on a continent of this planet in the solar system of the
universe. Now, if you move any of these collective particles, the
lamp will fall.

We change things round, often. Why, because, there are
convenience places, however we might think, wow, that was a
cleaver move, we exclaim. But in a short while we change it
again, because there are more convenience places.

We get born because the convenience. The sperm that pushes
out every other ones, is not because he/she is stronger, it's
because they are at the right moment at the right place, to push
others away. What makes them stronger is what makes others
weaker. What convenience it, inconvenience others. What makes
us to place the lamp on a table is because the other places are
not good enough.

So, has the God in question made such STRINGS? OK, if I agree
with you on the strength of the God being beyond our concept
under terms of Power and Ability, there are questions to be
asked; how us humans could conceive such super being? Do
we conceive any smaller particles before such being?

If the God is yet to be so powerful to create everything from the
days of Adam and 4 Billion years before Earth, 5000 billion years
before Sun, and billion of billion years before that, all the stars
before creation after the BIG BANG, and before that, all for us to
appreciate our lives. Do you think we are so precious to walk into
the BLACK WHOLE and such places for the God?

Then, how are we planning to see this super natural, not to
mention that we don't know the least things about anything,
never mind the super power? We still living in three dimensions,
while out there are twenty-two. HOW WE GONU GET THERE,
HOP SCOTCHING?

If you we know what the steering of a car do, then how are we
going to drive the damn car? If we don't know what we are; apart
from being called human, then, a sudden jump at the Ultra far in
minds and thoughts that in practice cannot see the next step, not
to mention the eyes that can't even see in dark, not without those
ugly goggles anyway, the unreachable distance, then, how are
we going to find out it's identity.

However, the concept of god is nothing without religions.

Otherwise, it means ruller. If it is a cop, then lets trust to be cadet
god. A learner god. May be it has got a title as well. may be it is a
doctor. Who knows/ Not in a life time, anyway.

Thanks for the concept of god.

Cam


==============

DOC WRITES:
Human being does not have the wisdom to question God, because God is superior, he knows best, he created everything & he is divine & good! Holy Shiite! This sounds like the definition of Master in Master &
Servant scenario or Senior & Surf Scenario or Dominator & Submissive
Scenario.


LOJ's Response:
Human beings have the infinite wisdom to question anything that they
want. True intellectuals are not like slaves to God, they question
him and his existence daily...I'm sure. True intellectuals combine
the possible existence of a God in syncronicity with the evolution
theory. There are no sure answers in this life and I doubt highly
there ever will be, I think that the higher evolved one becomes the
closer they become to death, this is a "Lori's Theory":) And I
believe we keep returning to this place called earth until we correct
our mistakes of the past. Now whether this is due to God or due to
another force not known to us is beyond me...I have very mixed
feelings on this subject and you in general!

And who the hell isn't a slave to something? You're a slave to your
paycheck, you have to show up and work or at least pretend to to get
that University wage. Whether we like to admit to it or not people
are slaves in various categories, when you get up in the morning your
a slave to your alarm clock....we are all slaves to the economy since
we must pay what they demand...Supply and Demand...ever hear of it?


Doc says:
Just imagine, how entrapped & enslaved to her own sets of rules & to one's God or Master, one must be, that one day she gets ups & makes
statements like this?! This is human slavery!


Lori's response:
See Above!:)


Doc drones on:
We are not even breaking into other aspects of how silly is the
concept of a supreme being, but lets concentrate on this issue. The
belief in God is basically to accept your weakness as a human being,
to accept you are not in control of your destiny, to accept God
controls everything, to accept you are inferior to your master (God),
that...blah,blah,blah!


Lori's response:
Weakness? To believe in a God or higher power is a weakness? This is
strange, since I find the people that infer we all came from monkeys
a weakness and a ridiculous idea...well not in the case of you, you
do resemble a baboon, and your sexual drive dictates that one of too:)
There is absolutely no truth to evolution except a few people with
infamous names citing their theories....and that's exactly what it
is A THEORY...theories change along with time....

As far as being in control of ones destiny, I don't believe a higher
power sets our destiny, I believe people create their own destinies
based on the choices they make in life....The weak ones are the ones
that like to blame bad destinies on Gods Will...there are many people
who have differing views on what you've said....I believe I control
what happens in my life based on my choices, yet I still 90% believe
in a God, that definition of God is not of the norm though. I also
believe that we in a sense our own Gods due to being able to control
our lives to a point...now the person that dies in a MVA due to a
drunk driver did not choose this as his/her destiny and had no
control of it. Shiite happens.


Doc:
How can a thinking mind, an independent critical thinker, a free
thinker, a superior mind, a logical mind, a thinking human being
seeks for some God to rules her life as master to his servant? This
is due to inferiority of brain. This is due to years of growing up in
a society who teaches us religious mumbo jumbo superstitious
rhetorics. This is due to years of society, parents & environment
preaching garbage in our ears.


LOJ:
This has nothing to do with inferiority complexes, it has to do with
personal choices. If one wants to believe in the master/slave theory
then so be it...live and let live, but there are other theories of
how one thinks and defines God/Higher Power.
I posted once that we are all influenced by our society and the
brainwashing we go through when we are being raised by our parents or
whoever....but when one becomes an adult and an independent thinker
this will cancel out that excuse, since it's up to the individual to
make their decisions independently. Even Evolution and your
thoughts were influenced by people you loved and looked up to, so
what makes one train of thought better than the other...they were
both derived from the same concept!


Doc:
Religion is basically a brain virus, an infection of the mind.


LOJ:
NO, non-independent thinking and following the crowd to ease your
decisions in life is the virus....and what about your butt buddy GW,
he is a bible thumper, why do you worship him then...You are a
paradox...but at least you're an intelligent and cute
one....otherwise I'd ignore you....You my friend are the priviledged
one:)

Have a nice day sweets!

Lori


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Postby IPC » Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:21 am

Dialogue of LOJ and AX (Philosophy) V

Dear Lori:

Lets analyze another aspect of this issue & lets look @ the silliness of being a creationist from another aspect.

The Limited Mind of Human Being

Lets explore human mind,

Human sees all this complexity in the universe & on Earth. Human sees the human anatomy, animal anatomy, system of the solar system & every other aspect & organization on Earth, including the seasons, magnetic poles, etc. and suddenly he says to himself:

How can all this not to be created by someone? How can all this organization to the detail, be just an accident?

We shall answer to the above question, yet we shall look @ it from 2 different aspects.

First,

For the limited mind of a human, all these detailed systems of human anatomy, animal anatomy, astronomy, geological system, etc. are great amazing creations which possibly cannot have had happened by chance & a creator must have done it, but in the universal view & in the Big Picture, all of these systems are petty & little silly combinations & variations & mixtures of matters & energies which are animated or inanimated, existing in the universal picture. If we look @ the issue from the universal point of view, Earth & everything in it is a microscopic element in the universe.

Once upon a time all these divine books, taught us that God is absolute & he created human in his image & Earth is the center of universe & living creatures exist only on Earth & beyond Earth & rest of the universe is basically decorations around Earth. And then of course God & his angels live in heavens above!

Today, science teaches us that Earth is basically a pile of dirt amongst billion other piles of dirt in the universe. What Holy books tell us & defines as amazing & precious system of human life & anatomy, is basically a simple mixture of animated pile of matters & energies in universal view.

We are just one creature living inside this universe amongst many other creatures. There are lives on other planets & we already discovered simple forms of life on other planets & the only reason we have not seen other intelligent life forms from other points of the universe, can be because of the fact that we still cannot travel long distances in the universe & other intelligent life forms have been doing a good job observing us without interference!

@ this point, we shall look @ life as a simple animated form of matters & energies. Whats the big deal? This is not chance, but this is billions of possibilities of mixtures of matters & energies which has happened & is happening now around the universe. It took billions of years for the present forms of these mixtures to form. We are the product of billions or millions of years of Evolution.

Second,

Besides, whose to say that Aliens where not involved? Today, we have many hard evidence about many visitations & observations of Aliens to & on Earth. Roswel & Area 51 are not children's stories! Building of Egyptian Pyramids & Aztec Pyramids are not simple work of man, ancient paintings inside caves in North Africa & Middle East about Astronauts & space Ships are not imagination, Crop Circles are not chance!

Imagine Aliens, much superior to us, have been visiting us for thousands of years. They are our fathers who mated with our mothers the primates Neanderthals on Earth. We are a mix breed of Alien/Primate & that is why we have not found the missing link so far! That is the jump, we have been looking for! Think about it, there is a great line of evidence supporting this theory. All the UFO sitings are not stories, they even had sitings in Iran & the pilots & generals who saw them are still alive. This happened before 1979.

So the whole Earth, then becomes an Ant Farm & we become Ants in the Ant Farm who been studied on by aliens. They been watching us, they created us & they created this society & they are experimenting to see our Evolutionary Pattern. They want to see how far we can evolve.

Interesting theory, ha? Makes your mind blow! Human being is too selfish to admit it is possible that he is only an experiment, a guinea pig, an ant in the ant farm! But Noooooooooo human is divine & made from the image of God! Human being simply cannot accept that he is a simple animated object made of matters & energies with Primate Ancestors & possible DNA of Aliens.

Human cannot accept that he is only an animal, a simple animated object. This is why human started creating all these nonsense about God & Angels & Prophets & Holy books & other garbage.

Lets be realistic, the present balance of science is pointing towards us being the bastard sons of Apes-like Primates breeding with little Green Men! Get used to it. We are only animals.

Now if Lori insists that we are coming back & she believes in Reincarnation, then I must agree with her! Sure we do! For instance, we die, we rot, turn to dust, dust grows Grass, Cows eat grass, Cows shit, & we turn to shit! Well, thats sort of reincarnation! We come back as Shiite! Hows that for reincarnation? It is circle of logical reincarnation in ecology of Earth. There you go, we come back as Shiite!

I strongly feel sorry for Creationists who live in LaLa Land & they are so selfish & self centered to accept that this is it! There is no afterlife. We die & then we do not exist as the present form. But Nooooooooo, they want to live forever! They want to go to heaven, go to Judgment Day, Some bozo like Imam Hussein or Jesus resurrects or Erects them back to life! Angels in Heaven, Nakir & Monker or Do KIR re animate them & then they keep on coming back to get it right! Or maybe they live in heavens with 72 Houri! Human being amazes me with his stupidity & selfishness.

Human simply rejects to die & he wants to live forever, thats why he created God & Afterlife.

I suggest, you have fun in this world cause after you die, you will turn to Shiite! Promises of Heaven & Hell are all cool & for simple minds & over grown children. No rational mind believes in garbage like Mahdi or Jesus or some other reappearing bozo who will come in Judgment Day & bang you all! Get a life people, will you?

Once again, it spooks people to even consider that we are a biological experiment or just a simple animated object which formed through millions of years. What considers strange mixture of human anatomy to us, is basically one in a billion possible mixture of matters & energies made on Earth in this universe made of millions of planets like Earth! Whats the big deal? Life Form is very elementary if you look @ it this manner! Life Form is a very basic system of animated objects in motion. This bio system did not happen over night, yet it happened through ages & many factor helped creating this carbon based unit (Human). There is nothing strange about it. We are on the verge of creating life. We are almost there & I am not talking cloning, yet talking lab experimentaions on creating basic life form of simple molecules & cells. We will soon get there. No hocus pocus, but all science.

But, as I always said,

We have Uber-Menschen & then we have Public.

Uber-Menschen builds this world.

Public goes to Mosque or Church or Synagogue or Temple & prays to some invisible guy in the sky who created him!

Uber-Menschen relies on his brain.

Public relies on Imam Hussein, Ali, Jesus, Saint Paul, Moses or some other Dayus!

I rest my case.

Mind is a terrible thing to be wasted on rubbish made up by Deranged Selfish Human mind about God & Prophets & Holy Books. Life is too short, live it up, enjoy it & look beyond the glass wall of your mind entrapments. Observe the universe & try to discover more about it & try to leave something as the result of your life time of living on this planet. Explore the possibilities & always remember,

You are nothing but an ant in the ant farm, do not kid yourself with afterlife. Stop lying to yourself.

Let me tell you about God:

I am man, I created God, not vise versa. I created God to escape to him in times of need. I created God to keep me Moral & Good. I created God to punish me if I turn Bad. I created this story as something or someone as authority figure to keep me in line, cause sometimes I am too weak to be my own Big Invisible Guy in the sky.

Once you evolve out of this process & be able to see the reality, then the:

Man becomes Uber-Menschen!

Uber-Menschen in control of himself, his mind & body, he who becomes Uber-Menschen, he who leads the explorations deep into the universe, he who leads the public to their quest. He who is the Superman.

Time to wake up folks. I am only your reality check! Ding Dong Ding Dong............

We shall analyze the other aspects of this child play called Creationism, later on in later programs. Keep on tuning in to IPC Broadcast & we guarantee we will evolve your mind. You will never be the same again!

Human Mind, it is amazing how primitive it can get & then again how creatively innovative it can get!

Sincerely,

AX
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Postby LOJ » Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:04 pm

Boy do I miss debates like this...what happened to them???
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Postby Ahreeman X » Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:05 pm

Dear Lori:

Would you like to continue this one on philosophy? Then shoot & tell me what is your present state of mind on this topic of philosophy? Is your perspective still the same & if not then what? Eventhough busy, yet I can make time for you. Let's continue our philosophy debate, let's see what you got! So shoot?

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Postby IPC » Fri Mar 10, 2006 10:31 pm

Doc:

Maybe Ms. Lori is not ready to take you on for round two! :D
Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds (English)
Pendare Nik, Goftare Nik, Kerdare Nik (Modern Persian)
Humata, Hukhta, Hvarshta (Avestan Persian)
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Postby LOJ » Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:51 am

I'm ready when you have something new and intelligent to add dearest....LOLO
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Postby Ahreeman X » Sat Aug 04, 2007 7:58 pm

Lori:

You are IMing, PMing, E-mailing and practically breaking down my door and windows to get your debate. You want a debate with mighty Ahreeman; you got your debate.

Before continuing anything else in this debate, let me ask you a question:

Why must you or anyone else in that manner see the need to worship a metaphysical invisible myth in the sky, named God and remain slave to God’s will as if her destiny is pre planed by God?

Can you hand me any other reason for this worship and slavery to God, except a “weak mind” which the majority of the world population indeed has? Give me a logical reason? Forget the logical reason, just give me any half-wit reason?

No Gods
No Shahs
No Imams
No Masters
No Prophets
I bow to no Gods.
I serve no Masters.
I control my own destiny.
I am a Thinking Man.
I am a Free Man.

Sign,

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Postby LOJ » Sat Sep 15, 2007 3:28 pm

No Gods
No Shahs
No Imams
No Masters
No Prophets
I bow to no Gods.
I serve no Masters.
I control my own destiny.
I am a Thinking Man.
I am a Free Man.


Dear Kant's philosphy on IMAGINATION is as follows: is distinguished between the reproductive and productive imagination. The former takes the HELTER SKELTER data of the senses and gives us whole objects. It completes the imcompleteness of objects sensed. The productive imagination does even more. It is the power through which the categories order the material of intuition. Thus it makes possible a unified world and makes understanding possible. It is appparently also the condition for novelty.

Now in quoting this I assume that you were automatically on the defensive thinking that I was attacking your quote of narcissicism. You were wrong. I was merely trying to categorize and assimialte the two worlds that we both live in so that you may better understand them. I will adhere to that saying that I've always said.
THE MERE FACT THAT WE CAN QUESTION OUR EXISTENCE SHOULD TELL US THAT THERE IS SOMETHING MORE.

You see that saying about the land of milk and honey and 72 Virgins, well we know that is just an exaggeration for a synopsis of "A GOOD LAND" not the precise goods. When we say that we believe in a GOD we need to refer to the above.
Now do you understand?
And while I respect all levels of religion as I've always adhered to, I commit to none. Just as I respect your level of belief.....I still will never adhere to it and always try to conspire against it :evil:
To a degree....as long as it depicts both views having merit but as you can see mine is much more understandable.
And whle we are at it, you my dear not only are far from free, (you see I know a lot more than you think) [-X but you also choose to believe in a false Diety but one of :evil: this nature.
Take your namesakes.
Now how can you call your self a free man when you can't even entitle yourself the one and only true human free MAN that you are?
Answer that Copernicus!

I REST MY CASE.
LUVS, LORI
BTW: I'VE UPDATED ...... :belly: [/quote]
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Postby Ahreeman X » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:45 am

:butterfly: Lori dear,

You took a century to come up with this? Did you over-exhaust your brain? Did you burn a fuse? You talked about everything from Jack and Jill to Leyli O Majnun and Shahnameh, except answering my question!

I asked you a question? What happened to my answer? A Quote from Kant and some cheesy complains and remarks? Girl, you have been away from serious debates and discussions for a long time! No wonder! You see, we are who we hang with! You hang with Pornographers, Go Go Dancers, Pimps, Old Sex Addicts, Prostitutes, Johns, John Deers (get it?) and Bang Bros! Automatically, your vocabulary, chain of thought and dialogue becomes a replication of them!

So it all came to this? You beg me to restart this discussion and then after a century you come up with this? Is this the best that you can do? What happened to my answer?

Answer my question asked, if you dare? ](*,)
Do not give me tales of Tabouli and Aseman O Risman, but answer the question?

For your God’s sake, who do you think you are dealing with? :face:

You are putting Shiite on Shingle and then covering up the Shiite under the Persian Rug! :coverup:

And I have explained about why “Ahreeman” in my Founder’s profile in the Website. Go back and read why! It has nothing to do with my degree of freedom!

I believe you are wasting my time and you are not serious about this debate. Come back when ready, will ya?

Still waiting for my answer? Waiting ………. :waiting:

Sign,
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Postby Aurioles » Sat Sep 29, 2007 11:30 pm

well why do most people beleve in gods, thats a hard question.

i think that the comon of man kind, the sheeps, they have several needs, and there is my fella no only cause to them.

1.- they have been educated that way, most of us have been educated in a religius matter, and only a few of us see benethe and fordward than tradition.

2.- People are not trust worthy they are superficial, an they are the belevers moral equals, to how is the sheep or the cow going to conffes and trust but his all migthi imaginary friend.

3.- also because of education is cattle thougth to serv, and sicrifice, we are no better, most people dont see because they are tierd, because it is easier to serve, because it is the education we recive.

4.- there may also be a genetic reason, as there is parts of DNA that may contrivute to an over reaction of sensations.

5.- and of course the mother of cience it is the mother of mith. Curiosity made us invent gods to explain wat we did not understud.
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Postby Ahreeman X » Sun Sep 30, 2007 10:11 am

:food: Dear Frijoles, Oh pardon me Aurioles (my mind is on food):

So you have itemized the causes as:

I. Education
II. Supernatural Factor
III. To serve is easier than to think
IV. Genetic DNA which may cause over reaction in sensations
V. Ignorance and Myth Creation

I like the way you itemize the issues and items (looking throughout your posts). Are you sure you are not my long lost Mexican cousin, cause you know I do the same? :question:

Your items are interesting but most interesting is your number IV, which is new to me. It is not far fetch and actually it is very logical. There is a possibility that Genes (through evolution) had caused over sensations in some God Fearing folks! Sensationalism is a great characteristic of Theists!

Now that we are on the subject,

I. What is your philosophical belief? Atheist, Agnostic, Theist, Alien landed in Lapaz or what?

II. Are Mexican Catholic theists (to your experience) as stubborn, dogmatic, close minded and sensational as American Evangelists and Persian Shiite Muslim?


Buena Suerte Amigo


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Postby Aurioles » Sun Sep 30, 2007 11:00 am

well thanks,

In numder II it will be the lack of trust of the felow men. but there are far more than 5 reasons.

i am an atheist, it isn ot that i do not belive in god, it is that i beleve there is no god.

well i naigth be a little biesed but most mexican catolics are there mostly because of tradition, they dont care much, however in the iner country, like in puebla they apear to be more fanatic than here.

however in general catholics apear to be more reasonable (they acepted evolution) than cristian evangelists (i was in a cristian protestant midle school, and in a catholic elementary school)

shiite apear to be the radicals and stuburn in islam, but i culd not really tell, i have not spoken to any of them.
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