Prophet Mohammed's Cartoon Controversy!

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Postby IPC » Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:47 am

Chris:

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Your posts are moved to three different rooms.

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About what you mentioned before, we disagree and we believe, if Iraqi troops will be well trained, then there will be hope for Iraq to stand on her own feet and move towards democracy.

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Postby IPC » Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:30 am

Camran:

We never got the chance to read the post that we asked you to delete in "Mohammed's Cartoon Thread" and repost it here. We only noticed it was signed as "Technical Advisor". You never reposted the post here. The cartoon thread would be a busy controversial thread, that's why we opened a separate thread for comments because we knew there would be many comments and we didn't want so many comments to mix with so many cartoons. It would have been chaos. We figured your post was a comment related to this subject. We are wondering what was it? Was it a comment to this subject or was it a tech advise regarding the cartoons?

BTW
What is your opinion of this Muslim Cartoon Riot subject?

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Postby Liberator » Mon Feb 06, 2006 9:58 am

UK police demo probe 'will be swift', BBC: A probe into some Muslim protesters demonstrating in London over cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammad will be as "swift" as possible, police say. There have been calls for arrests after placards glorifying the 7 July bombings and calls for the enemies of Islam to be killed featured in Friday's demo. A team investigating the protests is up and running, Scotland Yard said

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4684474.stm

Some of these pictures have been posted before but these are a but higher quality I believe:

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Postby Liberator » Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:02 pm

Beh kooriye chesmaye mosalmanan! az yek shirzaneh irani!


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The Age of Liberty
I am willing to go to war to defend one Danish cartoonist

February 5, 2006
iranian.com


It is hard to witness all the angry outcries and the commotion that a derogatory cartoon of Mohammad, the prophet, has unleashed and not be moved. As a writer, who has fled her native country because she wanted to seek freedom in a secular democracy, I feel like I have to put pen to paper and take a stand.

In Iran and indeed in most of Islamic countries you can either be hanged or killed by a mob for a cartoon like the one published in Denmark and later in many EU countries. When I came here to France I did not expect the heavy hand of Mullahs to reach this far. But with all these demonstrations, boycotts, and threats they have in many ways used their bullying techniques to bring about a kind of censorship even here in France, Europe and America.

The angry bearded mobs have their apologists. Clean cut Imams and college professor’s who beg the West to “understandâ€
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Postby Liberator » Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:29 pm

Holy intolerance
How difficult is it to understand that Western governments can not tell their media to enforce Islamic Sharia just as they do not enforce the Jewish laws?



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David Etebari
February 6, 2006
iranian.com


The recent worldwide Muslim reaction to the cartoons (http://drawmohammed.com/thumbnails-2.html) that were published in a Danish newspaper is a good opportunity for the Muslims and their religious leaders to take a deeper look at their own actions before blaming the western media and governments:

1- These cartoons were published in a privately owned Danish newspaper 4 months ago (September of 2005). The publicity for the cartoons were initially created by the reaction of the Muslims in Denmark and later in other parts of the world. It was only after the news of the Muslim reaction that the European media (as well as others) started printing the news as well as the cartoons for their readers. Therefore the people who truly publicized the cartoons were Muslims by their over-reaction and not the Danish government or people. This was also the case with the Salmon Rushdi’s book which thanks to some Muslims and Khomeini death fatwa it became one of the worldwide best sellers!

2- If one reads the Danish newspaper and its positions, it is obvious that the intention of the drawings were to spark an INTERNAL debate on whether there still exists freedom of expression or it has given way to the self-censorship in Denmark. However the Muslim reaction resulted in an atmosphere of death threats to the cartoonists to the extent that they are now forced in to hiding.

3- It was not until after the publicities by the Islamic Conference and the Gulf Cooperation Council as well as Saudi, Egyptian, Kuwaiti, Iranian ... governments that the worldwide reaction by angry Muslims mushroomed. In fact after 4 months many people (Muslim and non-Muslim) have not yet seen the cartoons but every time that the news of another Muslim riot is shown in the world wide media , more people get curious to see what the cartoons were all about and therefore more media coverage is given to them. If cartoons initially portrayed to the limited Danish newspaper readers a hostile or intolerant vision of Islam and its prophet, it is now the angry and intolerant Moslem mobs who are proving such view of Islam worldwide! The ones who now give legitimacy to the cartoons are no longer the cartoonist, but the ones who make death threats and those who burn flags and the buildings! In the words of a Jordanian journalist who is sadly now arrested for expressing his opinion: "Muslims who turn to violence in order to register their displeasure with the cartoons only turn themselves into the same caricatures against which they protest. "

4- Governments such as Iran, Saudi Arabia , Kuwait, Egypt, etc are facing many internal problems and dissatisfaction with their own people. What better tactic than turning their people's attention to satanic non-Muslim west while buying themselves legitimacy with their masses for standing up for the prophet of Islam? They also are giving their people the subliminal message that: "This is what happens with Freedom of speech. It depicts your prophet, so let us handle your affairs!".

5- Western media (and even Moslem media) is often filled with cartoons of Jesus, Moses and even GOD (the old beaded man) but we do not see some Muslims burn flags nor their governments boycott products when they see the caricature of God in the European papers but somehow they get outraged when it comes to their prophet. One wonder who is holier for some: God or his prophet? The Muslim concept of not drawing the prophet was supposedly to prevent his idolization, but aren’t such reactions in nature an example of idolization of him while tolerating the cartoons of the old bearded man!? Doesn't Islam also believe in Jesus and Moses as prophets of God? If so, why is it that Muslims and their leaders did not get outraged when Al-Jazeera portrayed the invading western troops as a armed fat Jesus or when it showed him as a pot smoking hippy? Why do Christians have to tolerate that and Muslims should not? Why didn’t Muslim show their public street outrage when Taliban bombed engraved statue of Buddha in Afghanistan?

6- How difficult is it to understand that the laws of Islam may state that portrayal of the Muslim prophet is not allowed, but the laws of Denmark does not. How difficult is it to understand that Western governments can not tell their media to enforce Islamic Sharia just as they do not enforce the Jewish laws. Denmark and western countries have many newspapers and media from extreme left to right, from Muslim to Communist, From Buddhist to Zionist, from democrat to Nazi and they all are tolerated and not controlled by their government as oppose to most papers in Muslim countries which are under government control. How difficult is it to understand that these papers do not reflect the opinion of their government or all of their people. Punishing Danish citizens and businessmen by telling them to leave middle east or not buying their products for cartoons that were printed in a privately owned Danish magazine is an attempt to force Muslim beliefs on non-Muslims and to control their media against their constitution.

It is time that Muslims focus on those who create the atmosphere for creation of such cartoons. It is those who kill innocent people in the streets of Baghdad, New York, Paris, London, Madrid, ... and those who cut the journalists throats in the name of Islam who truly present an intolerant, hateful and angry image of Islam. Where are the outraged Muslim Imams and Mullahs of Europe and middle east when their Muslim brothers and sisters are blown in to pieces in the street of Baghdad by suicide bombers on a daily basis?

May be if the Muslims masses in Indonesia or Beirut would also had shown their anger over such atrocities done in the name of their religion, such cartoons would not have disappeared. Sooner or later many Muslims have to get a thicker skin and come out of the bubble many live in and stop getting so outraged over a cartoon while they don't seem to mind the very real issues affecting their own people. In the streets of Baghdad and in the jails of the Islamic republic of Iran, Danish people and their cartoonists do not kill Muslims... those who call themselves Muslims do.

A French editorial hit the nail right on the head when it wrote: "Islam forbids any representation of the Prophet,... The question is, are all those who are not Muslims obliged to honor that prohibition? Can you imagine a society that added up ALL the prohibitions of the different religions? What would remain of the freedom to think, to speak, or even to come and go freely?"
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Postby Liberator » Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:37 pm

Veteran of Iran-Iraq war, in a letter to the Islamic Republic's Commerce Ministry proposes to rename "Danish pastry" to "Gol Mohammadi"!!!

http://www.isna.ir/Main/NewsView.aspx?I ... 573&Lang=P

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I hope this guy goes and throws himself down the chah of his "Imam Zaman" in Jamkaran and spares his intelligent islamic statements for his visit down below with allah!




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Postby Liberator » Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:40 pm

[b]Subject: Don't be intimidated!
Source: Iranian
Date 06-02-2006

Don't be intimidated!
On the row over “offensiveâ€
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" -J.F.K
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Postby Liberator » Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:43 pm

Danish embassy in Iran comes under attack
Mon. 06 Feb 2006
Iran Focus


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Tehran, Iran, Feb. 06 – Hand grenades and cocktail Molotovs were hurled at the Danish embassy in Tehran as several hundred radical Islamists attacked the compound Monday night in protest to the publishing of several cartoons in a Danish daily depicting the prophet Mohammad negatively.

The protestors, members of the Bassij – an offshoot of the Revolutionary Guards – demanded that the Danish ambassador be expelled from Iran.

There were chants of “Death to Americaâ€
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Postby Liberator » Mon Feb 06, 2006 12:52 pm

Iran Cuts Trade with Denmark

February 06, 2006
Reuters
From correspondents in Tehran


http://www.iranvajahan.net/cgi-bin/news ... &d=06&a=14


Iran has cut all trade ties with Denmark because of the publication of satirical cartoons of the Prophet Mohammad, Iranian Commerce Minister Massoud Mirkazemi was quoted as saying. "All trade ties with Denmark were cut," he was quoted by the Iranian student news agency ISNA as telling a news conference.

He said from tomorrow, Iran would stop any Danish goods from entering its customs areas.

Iran imports $US280 million worth of goods from Denmark a year.



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Fire Bombs Thrown at Danish Embassy

February 06, 2006
Reuters
From Correspondents in Tehran


http://www.iranvajahan.net/cgi-bin/news ... &d=06&a=13


A crowd of about 400 demonstrators threw petrol bombs and large rocks at the Danish embassy in Tehran tonight in a protest over the publication of cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammad. A correspondent at the scene said about 20 petrol bombs had been thrown at the embassy, which sits behind a high wall in a residential district of northern Tehran.

Only one of the petrol bombs had gone over the wall, to loud cheers from the crowd.

The embassy building itself did not appear to be damaged.
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Postby IPC » Tue Feb 07, 2006 7:48 pm

Democracy in a Cartoon
By Ibn Warraq
AP

IBN WARRAQ
Born in 1946 in India and raised in Pakistan, Ibn Warraq was educated in Koran schools in Pakistan and later in England. He currently lives in the United States and writes under the pseudonym Ibn Warraq, a pen name traditionally used by dissidents in Islam. He is the author of the best- seller "Why I am Not a Muslim" and the editor of "The Origins of the Koran" and "The Quest for the Historical Muhammad."


Best-selling author and Muslim dissident Ibn Warraq argues that freedom of expression is our western heritage and we must defend it against attacks from totalitarian societies. If the west does not stand in solidarity with the Danish, he argues, then the Islamization of Europe will have begun in earnest.

Ibn Warraq:
"How can we expect immigrants to integrate into western society when they are at the same time being taught that the west is decadent, a den of iniquity, the source of all evil, racist, imperialist and to be despised?"


The great British philosopher John Stuart Mill wrote in On Liberty, "Strange it is, that men should admit the validity of the arguments for free discussion, but object to their being 'pushed to an extreme'; not seeing that unless the reasons are good for an extreme case, they are not good for any case."

The cartoons in the Danish newspaper Jyllands-Posten raise the most important question of our times: freedom of expression. Are we in the west going to cave into pressure from societies with a medieval mindset, or are we going to defend our most precious freedom --Â freedom of expression, a freedom for which thousands of people sacrificed their lives?

A democracy cannot survive long without freedom of expression, the freedom to argue, to dissent, even to insult and offend. It is a freedom sorely lacking in the Islamic world, and without it Islam will remain unassailed in its dogmatic, fanatical, medieval fortress; ossified, totalitarian and intolerant. Without this fundamental freedom, Islam will continue to stifle thought, human rights, individuality; originality and truth.

Unless, we show some solidarity, unashamed, noisy, public solidarity with the Danish cartoonists, then the forces that are trying to impose on the Free West a totalitarian ideology will have won; the Islamization of Europe will have begun in earnest. Do not apologize.

This raises another more general problem: the inability of the West to defend itself intellectually and culturally. Be proud, do not apologize. Do we have to go on apologizing for the sins our fathers? Do we still have to apologize, for example, for the British Empire, when, in fact, the British presence in India led to the Indian Renaissance, resulted in famine relief, railways, roads and irrigation schemes, eradication of cholera, the civil service, the establishment of a universal educational system where none existed before, the institution of elected parliamentary democracy and the rule of law? What of the British architecture of Bombay and Calcutta? The British even gave back to the Indians their own past: it was European scholarship, archaeology and research that uncovered the greatness that was India; it was British government that did its best to save and conserve the monuments that were a witness to that past glory. British Imperialism preserved where earlier Islamic Imperialism destroyed thousands of Hindu temples.

On the world stage, should we really apologize for Dante, Shakespeare, and Goethe? Mozart, Beethoven and Bach? Rembrandt, Vermeer, Van Gogh, Breughel, Ter Borch? Galileo, Huygens, Copernicus, Newton and Darwin? Penicillin and computers? The Olympic Games and Football? Human rights and parliamentary democracy? The west is the source of the liberating ideas of individual liberty, political democracy, the rule of law, human rights and cultural freedom. It is the west that has raised the status of women, fought against slavery, defended freedom of enquiry, expression and conscience. No, the west needs no lectures on the superior virtue of societies who keep their women in subjection, cut off their clitorises, stone them to death for alleged adultery, throw acid on their faces, or deny the human rights of those considered to belong to lower castes.

How can we expect immigrants to integrate into western society when they are at the same time being taught that the west is decadent, a den of iniquity, the source of all evil, racist, imperialist and to be despised? Why should they, in the words of the African-American writer James Baldwin, want to integrate into a sinking ship? Why do they all want to immigrate to the west and not Saudi Arabia? They should be taught about the centuries of struggle that resulted in the freedoms that they and everyone else for that matter, cherish, enjoy, and avail themselves of; of the individuals and groups who fought for these freedoms and who are despised and forgotten today; the freedoms that the much of the rest of world envies, admires and tries to emulate." When the Chinese students cried and died for democracy in Tiananmen Square (in 1989) , they brought with them not representations of Confucius or Buddha but a model of the Statue of Liberty."

Freedom of expression is our western heritage and we must defend it or it will die from totalitarian attacks. It is also much needed in the Islamic world. By defending our values, we are teaching the Islamic world a valuable lesson, we are helping them by submitting their cherished traditions to Enlightenment values.
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