Zarathustra, the Real Story: Zoroastra & Zoroastrianism

[Ahreeman X]

Zoroastra & Zoroastrianism, The Real Story!
February 28, 2005 = 2564 Shahanshahi PIY (Persian Imperial Year)

Before you read this post, review the Updated Version:

Zoroastra and Zoroastrianism, the Real Story
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/philosophy/ ... /index.htm


Zarathustra Spitmata the great Persian Philosopher - Contemporary Image

Zarathustra Image is from:

Persian Mythology, Gods and Goddesses (3 Parts)
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/culture-lan ... /index.htm

The time has come for us to finally write a truth based, historically accurate and scientifically based document about Zorastra and Zoroastrianism! May the Truth be revealed and The Light of knowledge spreads around. Shall we begin?

Zarathustra's Timeline

The ongoing historical debate on the exact timeline of the birth and life of Zarathustra Spitmata will never end! There is basically a difference of opinion which varies about 1000 years. There are tens of different versions by tens of different historians! Allow me to mention a few different theories.

Myth Based Theories

These theories are often based on Persian mythology, Shahname Ferdowsi, and other epical myths

Greek Testimonial Based Theories

These theories are often based on Greek myths and Plato Era documents. These theories date the time line of Zarathustra some millennia before the fall of Troy and the Trojan wars.

Archeological Based Theories

These theories study the various archeological discoveries. Some try to compare Gathas with Rig Vedas, because Sanskrit and Gathic languages are the branches of the same mother language. A factor has been taken into account which is, the Aryan migration from the northern lands (Siberia and or Caucasus) towards the Persian plateau and the Indian sub-continent. These theories are not accurate to figure the exact date but they can be considered the best approximations on the time line of Zarathustra.

Historical Based Theories

These theories compare the social aspects of life during Zarathustra (as reported from the Gathas) and compare it with the first accurately known times, mainly, the Achaemenian period, and then figuring out a date. But the point is that Gatha has been tampered with, over and over through the years.

Traditional Based Theories

These theories are based on Pahlavi of the Bundahishn, one of the Zoroastrian scripture written around the time of Arabo_Islamic invasion_occupation of Persia, The scripture was written either during the Sassanid or after the invasion. Overall the scriptures state that Zarathushtra was born in 588 BC, stating that this was 258 years before Alexander’s Invasion_Occupation of Persia.

Various Other Theories

A number of historians use other methods and come up with post Achaemenian dates, which are now for facts, proven to be inaccurate.

Why don't we review some of these timelines by various historians:

Legend:

Zarathustra's Timeline Dates (BC), Source Historian

Myth Based Theories

10,000 Manly Palmer hall
7129 H.S. Spencer (The Aryan Encyclopedia)
6600 J.K Katrak, Shahname Ferdowsi
6312 Pithawala

Greek Testimonial Based Theories

6480 Xanthus of Lydia (5th century BC)
6350 Eudoxus & Plinus quoting Aristotle, 6000 years before Plato (4th century BC)
6200 Hermodorus (3rd century BC)
6000 Hormazdyar Mirza (Outlines of Parsi History quoting Greek scholars)
6000 Plutarch

Archeological Based Theories

6000 - 4000 Kavosji and Bharucha
3500 Firouz Azargoshasb (Chicago lecture 1981)
2000 Hippel & Lassen
2000 Asgarov (based on excavations in Uzbekistan, 1984)
2000 - 1500 (based on Rig Veda and Aryan migration 1700 - 1500 BC)
1800 - 900 Moulton
1767 Zabih Behruz (based on various astrological techniques)
1700 - 1400 J. Ashtiyani (based on Gathas and the Rig Veda)
1500 Mills (first 900 BC, and later changed to 1500 BC)
1400 - 1000 Mary Boyce (A History of Zoroastrianism, 1989)
1200 - 1100 Thomas Burrow (based on Farvardin Yasht and other post Zarathushtra scripture)

Historical Based Theories

1080 Pour Davoud (The Age of Zarathushtra, Journal of KR Cama Institute, 1935)
1080 Shapour Shahbazi (based on post Alexander Persian historical records)
1000 Dastur M.N. Dhalla (history of Zoroastrianism, 1938)
1000 Hummel (based on Assyrian inscriptions)
1000 Lommel (based on Egyptian papyri)
1000 - 900 Wesendonk
1000 - 600 Gherardo Gnoli (based on Gathic and Achaemenian Scripture)
900 Bartholomae and Widengren

Traditional Based Theories

660 - 583 E.W. West (Pahlavi Text, part 5, Oxford, 1897)
650 - 541 W.B. Henning (Zoroaster, Oxford, 1947)
570 - 550 Herzfeld (Zoroaster and his World, Princeton, 1947)
589 - 512 Anquetil du Perron (Zand Avesta, Paris 1971)
588 Bundahishn (based on Bundahishn, Alexander's Invasion_Occupation of Persia)

Various Other Theories

458 H.S. Nyberg (Die Religionen des Alten Iran, 1938)
100 Darmesteter

Zoroastrian Calendar

Zoroastrian Calendar is also an issue of controversy amongst the historians. There are three Zoroastrian calendars of Fasli, Shahanshahi, and Qadimi.

Fasli Zoroastrian Calendar

Fasli means seasonal. This is a religious calendar which is based on seasons by calculating one day every four years, patterned after the Gregorian Armenian calendar. Nowruz, The Persian New Year is fixed on March 21.

Shahanshahi Zoroastrian Calendar

Shahanshahi or Shenshai means Imperial. This calendar is used by Parsi Zoroastrians, including some of the most influential Mubed-e Mubedan (Top Zoroastrian Priest), Mubeds (Zoroastrian Priests) and generally, Dasturs (High Priests). It is based on a religious calendar which was theoretically synchronized with the seasons by calculating a month every 120 years, but the calculation was not consistently followed on. Nowruz was observed on August 23. A recent proposal would reform the Shahanshahi calendar by bringing it back into harmony through the calculation of whole months.

Please note that "Shahanshahi Zoroastrian Calendar" is different than "Shahanshahi Calendar" (Persian Imperial Calendar) aka PIY. The "Shahanshahi Calendar" is based on coronation of Cyrus The Great 559 BC and starting of The Persian Empire to replace the Median Kingdom. IPC uses this calendar.

Qadimi Zoroastrian Calendar

Qadimi means old and ancient. In 1746 Dasturs in Surat adopted the Irani calendar on the basis that it represented an ancient tradition. The Qadimi calendar is one month ahead of the Shahanshahi.

So as you see, it comes down to many theories.

Theory One

According to certain Zoroastrian Fire Temples and Mubeds, Zarathustra was born on 1777 BC and the Zoroastrian Calendar is based on his 40th Birthday, so right now, the year is 3742 Zoroastrian Holy Year.

Theory Two

According to other Zoroastrian Fire Temples and Mubeds, the Zoroastrian Calendar has a base year 631 AD, the year of coronation of the last Zoroastrian Sassanian king, Shahanshah Yazdgird III. So right now the year is 1374 AY (Avesta Year).

Theory Three

Then you have other Mubeds claiming that in post-Sassanid Persian astronomy books, Zarathushtra built an observatory in Zabol, Sistan (eastern Iran) and that it was inaugurated on 21st March 1725 BC, the day King Vishtasp and his court converted, chose the Good Religion of Zoroastrianism and joined the Zoroastrianism Fellowship. It also provides us with the clue that the Good Religion was founded by Zarathustra, exactly twelve years earlier on vernal equinox of 1737 BC.       Â

And the list goes on and on, and each Fire Temple based in India (Parsis) or Iran (Yazd) or America (Orange County) or etc., has their own beliefs!

What do I believe?

Zarathustra Spitmata's Birthdate is on Farvardin 6th, - 71 Shahanshahi = March 26th, 630 BC. And, Zarathustra Spitmata's timeline is 630 BC - 550 BC. He was born on this glorious day. Why you ask? Because after studying all the above testimonials, analysis of historical facts, study of archeological discoveries, latest scientific debates, I chose to have a progressive approach and view history as a science; therefore, I shall state that this is the most logical conclusion based on the latest evidence.

Zarathustra could have not been born way back in 1000 BC or before, simply because back then Iranians had Mithraism and Vedaiism Religious beliefs. Beside some mythical documents such as Shahname, there is no solid evidence that there was a trace of Zoroastrian Beliefs back then! Even early Medians had no clue of Zoroastrianism! Median Kingdom (728 BC - 550 BC), only started to grasp Zoroastrian values in later years of the Kingdom. Eventually the Achaemenid Court after 559 BC (Coronation of Cyrus), started to fully grasp the concept of Zoroastrianism.

There is a difference between actual historical evidence and myths of Shahname or Hierarchy of various Zoroastrian Temples! Mubeds, Zoroastrian Temples and Shahname are not evidence of true history!

Zarathustra Spitmata

The Timeline of Zarathustra will remain in debates and questions! Also many scholars believe in various different birth place for him! No one exactly knows where or when the Zarathustra was born. Some scholars put his birth in western Iran, perhaps near Tehran, others due to the eastern Iranian dialect and language of his poetry, place his birthplace in the east (Khorasan). Some place his birth in Troxiana between Amu Darya River (Oxus) and Sir Darya River (Jaxartes), near Aral Sea (Aral Lake) in North East of Persian Empire, Soqdiana (Today's Uzbekistan). Then of course, you got some who believe he was born in Atropategan (today's Azerbaijan), most likely in City in Shiz.

Some consider him an Azeri. For those who believe Zarathustra was Azeri, I must clarify a few points. Back then, Atropategan (Atropatgan) was a Khashtarah (State) of the Median Kingdom. Ancient Atropats were a world different than today's Azeris. Ancient Atropats were Median Aryan but Today's Azeris as a majority are mixture of Turk (Turkish Race) + Persian (Median Aryan), and as a minority are Semi Aryan (2/3 Aryan). Ancient Median Atropats were a totally different story than today's Turkish Azeris!

As for the date of his birth, it has been a matter of controversy forever (as stated above). Some Greek sources placed him as early as 6000 BC, few if any scholars take that date seriously. The traditional Zoroastrian date for Zarathushtra's birth and ministry is around 600 B.C. This is derived from a Greek source that places him "300 years before Alexander" which would give that date; other reasonings behind the 600 BC date, is that King Vishtasp of Zarathustra's Gathas is actually the father of the Persian Achaemnid King Darius I, who lived around that time.

The Meaning of The Name

Zoroaster, is a Greek term of the name Zartosht. Zarathushtra, which means, in ancient Persian, "yellow camel."

Zarathushtra = zara (yellow or gold) + ushtra (Ushtor, Shotor, Camel).
So
Zarathushtra = Referred to as "The Owner of the Gold Camel" or "The Golden Camel"

Animals such as camels and horses were essential and even sacred to the people of Zarathushtra's Era and thus a name containing one of these animals marks a person as important. A similar naming practice occurred among the ancient Greeks where names containing "-ippos" or horse denoted high birth, such as Philippos (lover of horses), Aristippos (best horse), or Xanthippos (yellow horse). So as you see, it is not a put down to call Zarathushtra, the Golden Camel or Owner of the Golden Camel.

The later Hierarchy and Bureaucracy of The Zoroastrian Fire Temples, perhaps embarrassed by their prophet's primitive-sounding name, stated that the name meant "The Golden Light," deriving their meaning from the word zara (gold) and the word ushas (light or dawn).

There is no doubt about Zarathushtra's clan name, which is Spitama - perhaps meaning "white."

Spitama = White or White Race or White man

So:

Zarathushtra Spitama = The White Man who owns The Golden Camel
or
Zarathushtra Spitama = The Golden Camel of The White

The Evolution - Transformation of the Zarathustra's name

Through the history of Persian Language,
Pahlavi Avestai
Pahlavi Sassanid
Colonial Persian
Modern Persian

the name has transformed:

Zarathushtra (Ancient Persian) => Zartosht (Persian) => Zoroaster (Greek) => Zarathustra (Western)

Spitama (Ancient Persian) => Spitman (Persian) => Espitmata (Greek) => Spitmata (Western)

Zarathustra's Family

Zarathushtra's father was named Pouruchaspa (many horses) and his mother was named Doqdu or Duqdova (milkmaid).

Zarathustra is said to have had six children, three boys and three girls. This is not confirmed as history, because the number, equals of the six Amesha Spentas (Amshaspanadan Angels) and may be only symbolism. Gatha is supposedly composed for the marriage of Zarathustra's daughter "Pouruchista" (Great Wisdom) so he is known to have had at least one child. Zarathustra, in the legends, had three wives (in sequence) of whom the last was Huvi (Hovi or Hvovi meaning Prime Cattle or owner of fertile cattle) the daughter of King Vishtasp's prime minister. Zarathustra married into the king's court; Pouruchista, in turn, married the prime minister of the court.

Zarathustra's Life (Historically Accurate)

There is a little biographical evidence in the Gathas. Whatever there, indicates that Zarathushtra was out casted from his original home, wherever that was, and forced to wander and move about without a fixed course, along with his followers and their animals.

Zarathustra and his followers wandered around until they found a sympathetic friend such as King Vishtasp, who was in fact not the father of King Darius Achaemenid, but an earlier ruler of the same name, who may have lived in eastern Iran or in Bactria (today's Afghanistan). There, Zarathushtra won over the king, and his court, and became the court's spiritual inspiration and guru. He was basically the philosopher poet of the courthouse. There is also not much accurate historical information about Zarathustra's life and times in the courthouse. Some say it was here that he composed the Gathas, which the names of king and his court appears in his poetry.

Zarathustra most likely spent 30 years in Vistasp's court before his death at age 80 or so. Some say he got murdered by Anti Vishtasp forces and some say he died of a natural cause. According to my studies, he has died of the natural cause.

The Reality of Zarathustra

Historically, Zarathustra Spitmata, has never ever claimed that he is the prophet of Ahuramazda or God!

He never refereed to himself as a prophet. He always referred to himself as a simple poet or a writer. The fact was that he was a great philosopher poet, way ahead of his time and era. Reading of Historical Documents, zoroastrian Texts, Avesta and Gathha with a deep historical analysis does teach us the same.

The Fantasy of Zarathustra

The Grand Hierarchical Bureaucracy of The Zoroastrain Fire Temple, Mubed-e Mubedan and Mubeds, have created fantasies of Zoroastra's Prophethood! The Fire Temples & Meqs (Zoroastrian Priests), like any other Organized Religious Hirarchy, have fabricated stories such as:

Zarasthustra's mother, Doqdu glowed with the divine Glory. The soul of the prophet Zarathustra was placed by Ahuramazda (God) in the sacred Haoma plant (which Zarathustra condemned in the Gathas) and the prophet was conceived through the essence of Haoma in milk (though the birth which is not a virgin birth, but the natural product of two special, but earthly parents.). The child laughed at his birth instead of crying, and he glowed so brightly that the villagers around him were frightened and tried to destroy him (envy and superstitions). All attempts to destroy young Zarathustra had failed; fire would not burn him nor would animals eaten him. Some say he was grown up by a mother wolf in the wilderness! Zarathustra then spent years in the wilderness searching for God before his first vision, in which Vohu Manah came to him in the form of an Amshaspand (Angel). All the heavenly entities, the Amesha Spentas (Amshaspandan) , declared Zarathushtra as prophet in heavens, and he received perfect knowledge of past, present, and future. Zarathushtra's preaching's to King Vishtasp was enhanced by some miracles, especially the healing of a paralyzed horse that convinced the king to accept the new religion and many other superstitions and stories about Cattle!

According to the 'Zend Avesta', the sacred book of Zoroastrianism, Zoroaster was born in Azerbaijan, in north west Persia. He is said to have received a vision from Ahura Mazda, the Wise Lord, who appointed him to preach the truth.

Of course in today's Zoroastrian Fire Temples, we witness many progressive preachers and scholars who deny all these Mumbo Jumbo and only stick with the fact that Zoroastra was prophet of God and lived as a Meq (priest).

Either progressive or fanatical beliefs of the various Fire Temples, they are both fabricated stories made up by High Priests of the Temple, away from historical realities. Through millenniums, Zoroastrian scripture has been tampered with and fabricated.

Zarathustra's True Teachings

Zarathushtra was never divine, he was only a man but a progressive man, a poet and a philosopher. His teachings were basically:

Good Thoughts (Pendare Nik)
Good Words (Goftare Nik)
Good Deeds (Kerdare Nik)

The Good and Evil are there for you to chose. The choice is yours. The man chooses his own destiny without the fear of burning in hell in afterlife (Shiite Islam)!

Avesta, Gatha and Zoroastrian Scripture, teach us many goods about Zarathustra and his ways. We can learn many goods about Zoroaster's philosophy and poetry through these documents.

Fore more information, go to IPC Library and read these books in Persian and English.

IPC Library
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/library/index.htm

also read:

On Faravahar, The Persian Zoroastrian Icon & Ancient Iranian History:

The Meaning of IPC Colors & Emblem
Faravahar, Green, White and Red
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/culture-lan ... /index.htm

8000 Years of Iranian History (7 parts)
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/library/eng ... /index.htm

Zoroastra & Zoroastrianism, The Real Story!

But the point is that Organized Religion had created a prophet out of Zarathustra! Zorostrian Fire Temple, the same as all other Mosques, Churches, Synagogues, Buddhist Temples, Hindu Temples, other Temples, are businesses who sell salvation.

There is no doubt that there are some good decent High Zoroastrian Priests and Scholars out there, but the majority are businessmen! The scientific reality is that:

* God is a myth, an invisible big guy sitting up in the sky ruling the world that he had created!

* Prophets of God were all charlatans, some were ahead of their time and very wise but still charlatans!

* Saints and Imams were all Con Artists!

* Holy Men are all Businessmen!

* Worship Temples are place of business!

But in comparison, today, many Fire Temples, unlike other places of worship, do not beg for money to sell salvation! They state a lot of historical facts, teach a lot of good, and avoid mumbo jumbo miracles and story telling. Whoever wants to donate money, they will do it behind the scene and anonymous. There are many rich zoroastrians who support the Fire Temples.

Conclusion

Facts

I. Zarathustra was a great philosopher poet, ahead of his time.

II. Zarathustra was a great Persian and human being who taught us many goods.

III. Zoroastrianism is a Persian philosophy, not a Holy religion.

IV. There are only two people amongst the prophets, who have never claimed to be prophets of God, one was Buddha and one was Zarathustra. That's why I respect both of them as great philosophers and I truly have not much respect for rest of the prophets, thus they were a bunch of miracle sellers, magicians and con artist frauds. I respect Buddha due to my Martial Art philosophy of Kung Fu and Meditations; I respect Zarathustra because he was pure thought!

V. Iranians and in general global public have limited minds and they are in need of some kind of God, Prophet and Religion. Evolution is too scientific for these folks! Therefore, in Iranian's case, we cannot simply take away Islam from them and leave them with nothing! They are like lost children & they will collapse! Therefore, we shall replace the more logical, realistic philosophy of Zoroastrianism with Islam. Besides, Zoroastrianism is a Persian Philosophy unlike Islam which belongs to Arabs and enemies of Iran! People often ask me why IPC emphasizes this much on Faravahar and Zoroastrianism? People also ask me why an Atheist such as yourself emphasizes so much on zoroastrianism? That's why!

VI. If Iranians must have a religion, then Zoroastrianism is far better and progressive and more Persian than the fanatical reactionary cult of Shiite Islam! Please observe:

Cult Characteristics

1. The Leader, The Divine Guru
2. The Use of "Controlling" Techniques such as Fear of the above, conversion and afterlife
3. Social and Physical Isolation
4. Extremist or Fanatical Behavior
5. Secrecy and Deception

and they are all present in Shiite Islam.

Lets value and study our rich Persian Heritage. Lets value our Persian Icons such as Zarathustra Spitmata.

For more information, please observe

IPC Calendar
http://www.localendar.com/public/AhreemanX

In these days of fear and indecision forced upon us by the AIOG (Arabo_Islamic Occupational Government), lets safeguard our great icons such as Zarathustra and our great classical Persian Philosophies such as Zoroastrianism.

Zarathustra Spitmata, may his great spirit rests in peace.

Yes my friends,

Many are schooled, yet only a few are truly Educated!

To be Persian, means to Live as a Free Persian, to love Persian, and to Die as a Proud Persian.

Pure Persian Pride

Amen

AX

[Ahreeman X]

Ahuramazda and Ahriman,
are Two Sides to The Same Coin!
The Duality Factor

Zoroastra & Zoroastrianism, The Real Story!

March 1, 2005 = 2564 Shahanshahi PIY (Persian Imperial Year)

The Addition one

According to original Zoroastrian Scriptures & Doctrine, Ahuramazda (Ancient God of Good) & Ahriman (Ancient God of Evil) were two sides of the same coin. It has been stated that:

Ahuramazda & Ahriman are two sides of the same entity. To back this up, there has been archeological discoveries, which certain statues were discovered. These statues were representation of Ahuramazda. Inscriptions on some of them, stated that Ahuramazda & Ahriman are the same entity. There were other statues with actual two faces (one back & one front), one representing Ahuramazda & one Ahriman. These artifacts are highly valuable.

Many historians & Scholars believe that The Element of "Duality" has been inputted in the original Zoroastrian Doctrine. Ahuramazda & Ahriman were two sides of the same coin. All elements in the globe have Good & Evil, both inside of them. There is a Good & Evil balance in all elements of the world. That is how everything remains balanced and a state of homeostasus rules the world. Pure Good or Pure Evil can cause catastrophe; therefore, a Balance is needed for the universe to operate.

These scholars, go as far as interpreting that:

Faravahar consists of both Ahura & Ahreemanic symbolism. The half human part is representing Ahuramazda and the half Beast part representing Ahriman.

Faravahar is a Zoroastrian Symbol. For more information check:

The Meaning of IPC Colors & Emblem
Faravahar, Green, White and Red
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/culture-lan ... /index.htm

The element of Duality can also be witnessed in all creatures from all sides of life. The duality factor was the original doctrine of the Zoroastrian Philosophy and it has been stated that it is up to us (human being) to choose between the two; however, the path to salvation is to keep a balance in between the two!

In later years, The Hierarchy of The Zoroastrian Fire Temples & Mubed-e Mubedan has tampered with the original doctrine, done major forgeries, deducted some & added some texts to the original doctrine. What we have today, has been fabricated many times over. The original valid parts of the scriptures are few, because:

a) Destruction, Vandalization & Burning of the Persian Libraries during Greeko_Macedonian Invasion_Occupation (Alexander) & Arabo_Islamic Invasion_Occupation (Omar, Ali, Hassan, Hussein), and ................

b) Tampering, Forgeries, deduction_addition of Texts to the original Zoroastrian Documents by Mubeds.

c) Revisions & Reformation of the original scriptures by scholars, to adopt & harmonize with the literuture of the Conquering Occupational Arabo_Islamic Government & Religion of Islam. The original Zoroastrian Scriptures & Zoroastrian Fire Temples had to be soften their tones & blend in with Islam to survive! The Arabo_Islamic Occupational Government (1st Arabo_Islamic Invasion_Occupation), had no tolerance for anyone except Muslim!

In Islam there is Allah & then Shaytan but in Zoroastrianism, Ahuramazda & Ahriman are two parts to the same Entity.

For more information, view the book:

222 Years of Struggle for Independence of Iran (12 parts)
651 AD - 873 AD
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/library/eng ... /index.htm

As we see, the Duality Factor has an ancient root in Persian Psyche.

Maybe, this can be the reason that the Top preacher for Zoroastrianism & the Best protector of Ahuramazda, is no one but The One & only Ahriman aka Ahreeman!

Ahreeman works in mysterious ways!

Amen

AX

[IPC]

Zoroastrian Philosophy in a nutshell

To shorten every great historical words that Dr. X wrote, we can put the complete Zoroastrian Philosohpy in 3 Terms:

Good Thoughts, Good Words, Good Deeds(English)

Pendare Nik, Goftare Nik, Kerdare Nik(Parsi Modern)

Humata, Hukhta, Hvarshta(Parsi Avestai)

Yeta Ahu

Regards,
IPC Office

[alimostofi]

First of all hello to all. What a wonderful site this has become. Well done to all. As you might know me from elsewhere, I do a lot of work on the Zoroastrian Astrology.

Here is my two cents to add. Much of the historicans, philosophers and religious ideas can be very wrong if you do not look at the Astrological angle to all this. Iranians were the fathers of Astrology. So what is the Astrological truth you may ask? I won't go into the signs and all that. You can look all that up. But what is interesting is to look at the mathematics that the Iranians used to understand the sky and then to correlate it to life on Earth. The angles that planets and moon and other stellar entities make to each other can be split into two types. They can be hard or soft. Hard and soft aspects in Astrology is what dualism is derived from. The concept of Ohrmazd and Ahriman, are meanings associated with hard and soft aspects. There are so many meanings and the various combinations are endless and each one is unique.

I hope that you all have benefited from this. All the best.

[Ahreeman X]

I wrote this a long ago, when we started the IPC,
You might find it interesting to read!


Iran Politics Club Ancient Faravahar Iran Flag
Flag of IPC: The Ancient Design Faravahar Banner
The Neo Holy Ceremonial Banner of IPC.
The official Green, White and Red with Ancient Design Faravahar centered logo flag of IPC.

Faravahar, Green, White, & Red
The Meaning of IPC Colors & Emblem

The representation and meaning of the new IPC Design:

1) Colors Green, White, Red of The Persian Flag:

I researched about the true tone of each color Green, White, and Red and then examined and experimented with 25 different shades of Green, 3 White, and 6 Red with html web design official colors, using the html color codes. Finally I got them right, the way it suppose to be in the original three color flag of Iran. Heres some background history of the flag and how we got to to the present colors:


Iran Politics Club Lion and Sun Persian Straight Sword Standard Iran Flag
Flag of IPC: The Iran Flag (Standard)
The Political Flag of IPC.
The official Green, White and Red with Straight Sword Lion.
The Straight Persian Sword version of The Ancient Iranian Lion, Sun and Sword Emblem. IPC emphasizes on The Persian Values (Persianhood); therefore, a Straight Double Edged Persian Sword had to replace the Curved Sword. Even though the Curved Sword was the Persian Version Curved Sword, yet still the Curved Sword has Tazi Roots.

"Derafsh-e-Kaviani (Kaveh's flag)"



According to Persian mythology Kaveh was a blacksmith and led a rebellion to overthrow Zah-hak (a.k.a. Ajidhak, 'Dragon' in ancient persian) who had reigned on Iranveyj for 1000 years. Kaveh put an end to a millenium of Zaratostrian Religion. Each millenium corresponds to a stage in the never-ending fight between Ahriman (Evil) and Ahoramazda (Good). Although Kaveh was the winner, he was not of celestial origin ,so his role in the history finishes here and Iranveyj was ruled by another king.

Iranveyj is assumed to be the land consisting of modern Iran , Turkmenistan and parts of Anatolia.

During his movement, Kaveh used a piece of blacksmith leather as his flag. This flag is not used nowadays but is a well known flag in Iran and is a sign of nationalism. It is called Derafsh-e-Kaviani which means 'the flag of Kaveh'.

With respect to the mythology, this flag is red, yellow and purple and I think it is horizontally divided. This flag is not used nowadays. It has been the sacred flag of Iran during the late pre-islamic dynasties (till the 6th century).

"Quotation of the english translation of the Shah-nameh"

Ferdosi, great Persian Poet, Father of Persian Language, the one who kept it alive after the invasion of Arabs and wanting to force their language on us. Shahname his book of Persian Poetry, is the pride and Joy of Persian literature.

The Shah-nameh (The Epic of the Kings) is an epic poem written in pehlevic (a middle persian dialect) delivered to King Mahmud of Ghazna in 1010 or 1011. It is traditionally attributed to Firdusi (i.e. "The Heavenly"), the nickname of Abu'l Qasim Mansur, born in Shadab, Khorasan area, 934 or 949 and passed away in Tus, 1020 or 1021.

In the English translation by Reuben Levy (London, 1967), p. 20, the following description is given:

"On the end of a spear Kaveh fastened a piece of leather, of the kind which blacksmiths wear in front of their legs when using their hammers [...] The young prince Faridun saw the piece of leather attached to the spearhead and he beheld in it the foundation of prosperity to come. The leather he decorated with Greek brochade and as background to it he had a golden figure outlined with jewels sewn on it. Ribands of red, yellow, and violet cloth were hung from it and it was given the title of The Kaviani Banner'. Since those days anyone who has assumed kingly rank and placed the crown of royalty on his head has added fresh jewels to that trifling thing of blacksmith's leather."

"Ancient Persian standard"



"The standard of ancient Persia, adopted by Cyrus, according to Herodotus, and Xenophon, and perpetuated, was a golden eagle with outstretched wings painted on a white flag."

"New colors of Persian Flag, What do they mean:"



The colours of the Iranian flag are traditional, probably dating from at least the 18th century and they can be interpreted as representing the fertility and great agriculture (green), peace (white), and courage (red). The were first designed in tricolour form in 1907.

"Most Modern Translation of Green, White, and Red:"
Eventually it came down to:

Green: We as Iranians are a very fertile & generous nation & we have many green lands covered with greens, grains, fruits, grass & plants.

White: We are peaceful people & a peaceful nation.

Red: Yet if the foreign enemy invades us, we are courageous people & will go to war and drop as much blood as necessary, so the whole world will be blood red!



After setting the 3 colors of  the Persian flag right on the IPC site then it was needed to find the proper emblem. Well we had temporary emblems, yet we needed something which would represent our history, culture, and our people most of all. Our roots as Iranian, an emblem which would complete it all, yet not towards any political fractions. A kind of emblem which would be Iranian, yet free of ideological sidings of left, right, or middle! So I finally came up with this idea to chose this logo, and then searched the whole net for proper design, something catchy, a different kind of Fatravahar, with fine shadings to make it bright up and come out better. Heres some history and tradition of how we came up to the present logo for IPC and the true origin and meaning of it:

FARAVAHAR - WINGED SYMBOL OF "Ancient Persia"
Faravahar our Herritage as documented .....

The "Faravahar," the winged disc with a man's upper body that is commonly used as a symbol of the Zoroastrian faith, has a long and splendid history in the art and culture of the Middle East. Its symbolism and philosophical meaning is an ancient heritage that extends through three millennia to modern times. In this text I will tell the story of the Faravahar and explain some of its many symbolic aspects.

The history of the Faravahar design begins in ancient Egypt, with a stylized bird pattern which is known as the "spread-eagle." A "spread-eagle" (as it is called in heraldry) features a flying bird shown from below, with its wings, tail, and legs outstretched. Such designs have been used in cultures throughout history, including American, where the seal of the U.S. Government features a "spread-eagle."

An Egyptian "spread-eagle" device is featured in the treasure of Tut-ankh-amoun which has a bird's body with a human head, and in which hieroglyphic symbols are held in the outstretched talons. (Illustration: Tut-ankh-amoun) These features will later re- appear, transformed, in the Faravahar. Closer still to the Faravahar are Egyptian designs which feature a sun-disc with wings. (Illustration: Egyptian winged disc.) This winged sun-disc represents Horus, the hawk-god believed by the ancient Egyptians to be incarnate in Pharaoh, the god-king.

The winged disc was from the beginning a symbol of divine kingship, or the divine favor upon a king. Very early on (second millennium B.C.) this design had migrated from Egypt to the ancient Near East. It appears above the carved figure of a Hittite king, (The Hittites flourished from about 1400-1200 B.C.) symbolizing a god's favor in the "spread-eagle" form. In Syria it is shown on a seal from the Mitanni civilization (c.1450-1360 BC) (Illustration: Mitanni winged disc).

The proto-Faravahar symbol may also have a native Mesopotamian origin, which was combined with the Egyptian symbol in ancient Assyria. Assyrian art also associates the winged disc with divinity and divine protection of the king and people. It appears both with and without a human figure. Without the human figure, it is a symbol of the sun-god Shamash, but with the human figure, it is the symbol of the Assyrian national god Assur. This appears on many carvings and seals. The Assyrian versions of the winged disc sometimes have the kingly figure inside the disc, and others have him arising from within the disc in a design that is very close to the Faravahar as it appears in Persian art. The graphic evolution from the "spread-eagle" is evident in the stylized Assyrian version of the design, where the bird's legs are abstracted into wavy streamers on either side of the disc which end either in "claws" or in scrolls, as they do in the Persian design. (Illustration : 2 versions of Assyrian faravahar)

By the time of the Achaemenid kings (dynasty flourished from about 600 B.C. to 330 B.C.), then, the design that would become the Faravahar had already been in use for at least 1000 years, from Egypt to Syria and then to Assyria. The early Achaemenids conquered Mesopotamian lands in the 6th century B.C., and re-patriated all the peoples subject to Babylonian rule, the Jews among them. These same Achaemenids also adopted Assyrian and Babylonian motifs for their monumental art, including the winged disc.

The Persian Faravahar is carved on the rock-cut tombs of the Achaemenid kings at Bisetoon in Iran, and varies from one carving to the other. In one it is very much like the Assyrian version, with squared-off "wavy" wings. (Illustration : Bisetoon) But it is in the carvings of Persepolis, center of the Achaemenid dynasty, that the Faravahar reaches its most elaborate and finely wrought perfection. The Faravahar of Persepolis is the one that has been adopted by Zoroastrians as their symbol. It appears in more than one form at Persepolis. When it must fit a horizontal, narrow space, the winged disc is depicted without the human figure in the disc (Illustration : Persepolis). But when there is enough space, the Faravahar is shown in all of its glory, with kingly figure, disc, streamers, and many-feathered wings (Illustration : big faravahar at Persepolis.). And, as it had done throughout history, from Egypt to Mitanni to Assyria, it represents the divine favor hovering above the king.

Scholars disagree about just what the symbolism of the Persian faravahar indicates. Is it a symbolic image of Ahura Mazda, the Zoroastrian name for the One God, the "Wise Lord?" If it represented Assur for the Assyrians, is it Ahura Mazda for the Persians? Many scholarly writings on the image still identify it as such. But in the Zoroastrian faith, Ahura Mazda is abstract and transcendent. God has no image and so cannot be represented in any form. (The only exceptions are during the later Persian Empire, in the Sassanian era, when Lord Mazda was represented as a divine, kingly figure handing a diadem to the Persian Emperor - and this was not used in worship.) The human figure above the disc, though he was borrowed from a pagan Assyrian god-image, has no specific identification, nor is there any evidence, as some folk beliefs have it, that he is the Prophet Zarathushtra. More recent scholarship has given the Persian Faravahar a more precise meaning. The winged disc as depicted by the Persians above the image of the King represents the Royal Glory, which is known in ancient Iranian (Avestan) as khvarenah, or "Radiant Glory." I will have much more to say about the khvarenah later on in this essay.

After the Achaemenids the image of the Faravahar disappears from Persian art. There is no evidence for it in the remaining art of the Parthian period, and it is absent in the art of the Sassanian period, the resurgent Persian empire of about 250-650 A.D. However, Sassanian art does echo some of the individual features of the Faravahar. One of the main symbols of the Sassanian monarchy and its divine protection was the crescent in a circle, with ribbons streaming from either side (Illustration : Sassanian). The ring which is held in the Achaemenid Faravahar's hand is still used in Sassanian art to depict the royal diadem, which is handed to the new King by the symbolic representation of Ahura Mazda himself or by the yazata (guardian spirit) of Waters, Anahita. And the spread wings, though in a somewhat different configuration, adorn the crown of a 6th or 7th century AD Sassanian king. (Illustration : Sassanian crown). After the Arab conquest, the winged disc, the winged crown, and the ring of kingship fade into obscurity, though ironically the crescent became the prime symbol for the new religion, Islam.

The Faravahar would remain an ancient relic until the early twentieth century, when both British and Indian antiquarians gave it another life. The general scholarly opinion, at least in the West, was that the winged disc represented Ahura Mazda. In 1925 and 1930 a Parsi scholar, J.M. Unvala, wrote articles which identified the Faravahar as the symbol of the fravashi or "guardian spirit" of Zoroastrian teaching. Through the influence of the Unvala articles, and a renewed awareness among Zoroastrians of their Iranian heritage, the Persepolis winged disc began to be used as a symbol for Zoroastrianism - not only because of its supposed religious significance, but because of its national symbolism as the device of a great Zoroastrian empire. In 1928, the great Parsi Avesta scholar Irach Taraporewala published an article identifying the Winged Disc not as Ahura Mazda or as fravashi, but as the khvarenah or royal glory. It was in these early decades of the 20th century that the Faravahar began to be incorporated into the design of Zoroastrian temples, publications, and ornaments. After centuries of obscurity, the ancient faith of Zoroastrianism had a new visibility, and a symbolic standard to raise.

"What does the Faravahar signify?"

The Faravahar is of great antiquity, as we have seen. But what does it mean? Is it just a royal insignia, or does it have deeper significance? This part of our essay will explain some of the philosophical and spiritual meaning of this rich and beautiful symbol.

The word "faravahar" actually is Pahlavi, or Middle Persian. It derives from ancient Iranian (Avestan) word fravarane which means "I choose." The choice is that of the Good, or the Good Religion of Zarathushtra. Another related word is fravarti or fravashi, which may derive from an alternative meaning of "protect," implying the divine protection of the guardian spirit, the fravashi. From these words come the later Middle Persian words fravahr, foruhar, or faravahar.

Whatever the origin of the word, the use of the word faravahar to describe the Winged Disc is modern. No one knows what the ancient Persians called their winged disc. But the history of the symbol, both before and during its Persian use, has a continuous meaning, and that is one of divine favor for a king. As the Winged Sun-disc of Horus it hovered over the Pharaoh of Egypt; it hovered over the Hittite King, and in Assyrian art it is depicted over the Assyrian King, often with weapons in its hands, helping the Assyrian monarch wage war. So when it enters Persian art, it is already a symbol of divine guardianship of the king.

The current consensus on what the Faravahar meant to the ancients who carved it is that it represents not Ahura Mazda, but the Royal Glory of the Persian King. This view is held by scholars such as Boyce and Jafarey. This Royal Glory is an important concept in Zoroastrian teaching; the Avestan word for it is khvarenah.

Khvarenah comes from the Avestan root khvar or "shining;" it is also the word for the sun. The word khvarenah is more abstract; it has the connotations not only of "glory" but of "divine grace."Â The sun-symbolism of the disc and the Mazdean concept of divine grace are thus combined. Khvarenah, in later Persian, became khurrah or farnah or farn, and still later became farr. If the Faravahar symbol actually represents khvarenah, then it should more accurately be called the "farr" rather than the "faravahar."

Khvarenah, in the Persian Empire, came to mean a specifically royal glory. It was a God-given gift, almost like the Greek word "charisma," which insured and legitimated the King's rule. However, though it was a gift of God, it could be abused, and if the King turned to evil-doing, the khvarenah would leave him.

This myth of the khvarenah is present in the story of the mythical Iranian King, Yima or Jamshid. He was the greatest of the prehistoric kings of Iran, and possessed the glorious khvarenah. But he became too proud and arrogant. Some stories say that he even called himself a god. Because of his pretension and pride, Yima lost the khvarenah. This myth is alluded to in the Gathas of Zarathushtra, in Yasna 32. In the later scriptures of Zoroastrianism, this myth is retold in the Zamyad Yasht, the prayer- song to the spirit of the Earth: "But when he (Yima) began to find delight in words of falsehood and untruth, the Glory was seen to fly away from him in the shape of a bird." (Yasht 19, 34) Thus in both word and image, Glory has wings. In the Shah-nameh, the national epic of Iran, the Glory is also referred to as the "Glory of the Auspicious Bird," which hovers over the heads of royal or princely personages. The Glory was symbolized on the battlefield by an eagle feather in the King's crown, which served as standard and inspiration to the warriors of Iran. In Sassanian art, where the Winged Disc is no longer used, the khvarenah is depicted as a circular halo around the head of the King, a halo very similar to that of Christian saints.

The Sassanian halo and the idea of the khvarenah can be compared to Jewish and Christian light-symbolism. In Jewish tradition, Moses' face shone so brightly after his meeting with God on Mount Sinai that the people could not look directly at him and he had to veil his face. (Exodus, chapter 34). In Christianity, the divine Glory shines around the figure of Christ during the Transfiguration (Gospel of Matthew, chapter 17). The light of the Transfiguration is known among Eastern Christians as the "Uncreated Light," and in its association with saints, heroes, and Christ it is similar to the khvarenah of the Zoroastrians. In this there may indeed be some Zoroastrian influence on Christian thinking, as the two cultures lived side-by-side in the Middle East for centuries.

In the Zoroastrian tradition the khvarenah is not just the Glory of the king, but has a wider range, as can be seen in the Avesta. The Zamyad Yasht praises the glory not only of the ancient Kings of Iran, but of the whole Aryan people, its mountainous land, and its Prophet, Zarathushtra. In the Atash Nyayesh, the Zoroastrian prayer to Fire, the khvarenah is identified with the light of the Sacred Fire. The revelation of Zarathushtra from the beginning has been associated with light. The Gathas are filled with light and sun imagery; light is not only physical, but metaphysical, the prime symbol for Goodness and God. Thus the khvarenah in Zoroastrian teaching, though specified to the glory of the King, also has a much more universal meaning.

According to Zoroastrian scholar Dr. Farhang Mehr, the khvarenah is granted to those human beings who are great benefactors of the world: good kings and rulers, prophets like Zarathushtra, or heroes. In the Gathas, these benefactors are called saoshyant, an Avestan word which means "savior." In later Zoroastrianism the term saoshyant acquires a messianic, mythical meaning, and this Saoshyant also enjoys the blessing of the khvarenah. Thus khvarenah also has the meaning of God's Grace.

But is this grace only for the Great Ones of the World, or do we lesser folk have - khvarenah, too? As Mehr has written, the khvarenah is enfolded within everyone. With those who are great in virtue, it is more radiant and powerful. Our work on this earth is to grow in goodness and thus show forth our own God-given khvarenah, which is the light of our excellence. This, then, is what the Winged Disc signifies both for the ancients and for us: the shining khvarenah, or "farr."

The Faravahar has another possible meaning, and that is its association with fravashi. Earlier I mentioned that J.M. Unvala identified the Winged Disc as a symbol of fravashi. This interpretation can be connected with the other linguistic meaning of faravahar as "protection." The Winged Disc is often called a fravashi rather than a faravahar, especially by the Indian Parsi Zoroastrians. What exactly is a fravashi? The origin of the word, as has been said here, relates either to divine protection or to one's moral choice of Good or Evil, and one's choice of the Good Religion. But there is much more to it than that.

The concept of the fravashi as guardian spirit does not occur in the Gathas of Zarathushtra. But in later Zoroastrianism, it becomes a most important idea. The Fravashi is the part of the human soul that is divine, unpolluted, and uncorrupt. It is not only our divine guardian but our guide; its perfection is always within us, as an ideal towards which we can reach. Every human being has a fravashi; even the divine spirits have them. Once a human being has finished life on earth, the fravashi, the higher individuality of that person, returns to Heaven. The fravashi may be the inspiration for the Jewish and Christian belief in the "guardian Angel," which always beholds the face of God (Matthew Gospel, 18:10).

In the later books of the Avesta (the Zoroastrian scriptures), the fravashis of the righteous are invoked as fierce and mighty warriors for the Good. In a long prayer called the Farvardin Yasht, there are litanies praising and reverencing the fravashis of the early "saints" and heroes of Zoroastrian tradition. The fravashis of the good departed are supposed to return to earth on special days, and towards the very end of the Persian year, in March, just before the Persian New Year, there are ceremonies to honor the fravashis of the righteous.

The Winged Disc may or may not represent Fravashi in ancient Persian art, but there is a precedent for this meaning in the popular religious art of ancient Egypt. There, the immortal soul of a human being, called a ba, is represented by a stylized bird with a human head. The "Ba-bird" is depicted in many different styles and positions, including the familiar "spread-eagle" configuration we recognize in the Faravahar. In Egyptian lore just as in Persian, the spirits of the dead could leave their tombs and fly about the land of the living, just as the fravashis gather just before the New Year. Amulets depicting the "ba-bird" often adorned mummies, even after the Greek occupation of Egypt in Hellenistic times.

Although the fravashi is unrelated theologically to the khvarenah, they both serve as embodiments of divine guidance and grace. The Winged Disc, for Zoroastrians, has come to signify the divine fravashi hovering above, an image of the perfection of the soul that can lead us forward to good thoughts, words, and deeds. Whether it symbolizes the khvarenah or the fravashi, or both, the Winged Disc is a symbol of the radiance of Divine Grace, and it truly soars on wings of light.

"Folk interpretations of the Faravahar"

Once the Winged Disc had been adopted as a symbol of Zoroastrianism, it entered into the community not only as a graphic symbol but as a folk motif. The Zoroastrian faravahar was "standardized" to the Persepolis model, though, as we have seen, even in Persepolis there are many variants of the Faravahar. The "standard" Faravahar is now the one you see on this Web page, which appears over the heads of the Persian kings on the walls of Persepolis. It is this emblem which identifies Zoroastrian publications and decorates Zoroastrian temples and gathering places, which has also been made into forms of jewelry for men and women, woven into wall-hangings, carved into marble and semi- precious stones, glazed onto ceramic heirlooms, and even made into paper and plastic stickers. Not only Zoroastrians, but patriotic Iranians of all creeds use the Faravahar, and various simplified versions of the Persepolis standard appear in carpet stores, restaurants, advertisements, and other Iranian concerns all around the world.

Along with the widespread use of the faravahar as a heraldic and decorative motif have come many interpretations of the symbol and its components which have little or nothing to do with the actual historical meaning of the symbol. None of these interpretations of the Faravahar design are found in any extant Zoroastrian scripture. But Zoroastrian priests and elders now use the Faravahar as a visual tool to illustrate the basic elements of the religion, especially when they are teaching children.

A sample of such an interpretation can be found in the book "Message of Zarathushtra" by the Iranian mobed (priest) Bahram Shahzadi, who presides at the California Zoroastrian Center in Los Angeles. This book is meant for middle-school children, but is read by people of all ages. In a short chapter called "What is Fravahar?" Shahzadi enumerates the symbolism of the various parts of the design. The bearded old man springing out of the central disc symbolizes the human soul. His upper hand is extended in a blessing, pointing upward to keep us in mind of higher things and the path to heaven. The other hand holds a ring, which is the ring of promise: it reminds a Zoroastrian always to keep one's promises. There are three layers of feathers in the wings, and these three layers stand for the Threefold Path of Zoroastrianism: good thoughts, good words, and good deeds. The central disc, which as a circle has no end, symbolizes eternity. The two streamers extending out from the central disc symbolize the two choices, or paths, that face human beings: the choice of good or the choice of evil. The streamers thus illustrate the ethical dualism taught by Zarathushtra.

Another folk interpretation of the Faravahar comes from an educated Zoroastrian layman. Some of his descriptions are the same as those in the Shahzadi book, but he adds more details. The open wings, as in Shahzadi's book, represent the Threefold Path. But the closed skirt of the human figure within the disc represents evil choices, divided into three layers: bad thoughts, words, and deeds. The circle at the waist of the figure represents not the Sun nor Eternity, but the law of consequences which is comprised in the divine ASHA, the Zoroastrian concept of the divinely created order of the universe. Good or evil deeds have their consequences, which "come around" to the person who acts morally or immorally. Thus the circle denotes moral returns according to ASHA.

Yet another interpretation of the Achaemenid design comes from an esoteric point of view. There are some Zoroastrians who are influenced by Theosophy, an eclectic esoteric movement of the nineteenth century. These have added Hindu and Buddhist esoteric ideas to Zoroastrianism, such as reincarnation, karma, and astral planes. For these believers, the Faravahar is a symbol of the soul's progression through many lives. The head of the man reminds one of God-given free will. The ring held in the man's hand symbolizes the cycles of rebirths on this earth and in other planes of reality. The central circle represents the soul; the two wings are the energies that help the soul to evolve and progress. In this interpretation, there are five layers of feathers in the wings (a particularly elaborate version of the Persepolis emblem) and these five layers signify the five Gatha hymns of the Prophet, the five divisions of the Zoroastrian day, the five senses, and also five esoteric stages that the soul must pass through on its way to God. As in the other explanations, the two streamers represent the two choices before human beings, the Good Mentality and the Evil Mentality. The tail (which is not mentioned in the other interpretations) is the "rudder" of the soul, for balance between the forces of Good and Evil. There are three layers of feathers in the tail, which stand for the Threefold Path of Good Thoughts, Words, and Deeds.

The Faravahar has flown a long way since it first saw the light in ancient Egypt. The winged sun-disc has shone its grace down upon divinely gifted kings, and it has spread its wings as protector of the glory of Iran. After millennia of obscurity, the symbol of the holy and radiant khvarenah again shines clearly. As world communications become ever more elaborate and widespread, the Faravahar has entered into a wider world. It has flown free from the walls of Persepolis and now shines among new peoples on new continents. It is now found on computer screens instead of ancient carved stones. Let us hope that the Faravahar, with its universal meaning of light, wisdom, righteousness, and God's grace can take its place among the great symbols of spirit, to inspire people all over the earth.



Bless you all with Iranian Pride,
May Green, White, and Red, also Faravahar be with you,
Long live IPC,
Long live Iran,
More power to all,

Dr. X

[alimostofi]

Originally the Lion in the flag did not have a sword. The Lion is derived from the Astrological symbolism of Leo or Amordad. The Sun rising in Leo is what the Shir-e-khorshid means. You will see a lot of referrences to Amordad in the prayers. But the astrological link is not mentioned.

To me what Salman's religion did to Astrology of ancient Iran, was on par to what the Spanish and Roman Inquisition did not progressive thinking in Europe. It went so far, that it actually changed the ancient philosophy of Iran, from dualism or reasoning, to idealism or monothestic Zoroastrianism. To this day Zoroastrians are all monotheistic, and only the philosophical Zoroastrians are dualists.

The addition of the sword to the hand of the lion by the shiites was a disgrace. But try explaining any of this to them.

The flag of Iran must represent the most important contribution the country has made as a member of nation states. The most important contribution we have made, is in the picture of the Cyrus's Cylinder. Some one did make an image of Iran flag with the cylinder in the middle of it. But I cannot locate it. Maybe you can dig it up?

[Ahreeman X]

Flawed Iranian Web History by Flawed Web Publishers

These days, every "Tricolor Waving Doper Diaper Baby" comes out of the womb with a Shahname in his hand, creates a cheesy website, puts a Nazi type o logo on his homepage, gathering 5 other "Tricolor Waving Doper Diaper Babies" around himself, does some Islam bashing, declares the creation of a political party & then releases flawed nonsense as historical facts! This is called The Iranian "Neo Nationalist Fashion" & it is in style!

One example is that single page history on the "History of Iranian Flag" by Channel One! In that paper, they stated that "Lion & Sun" goes back to Qajar era. The fact is that "Lion, Sun & Sword" has started its existence on post Islam era; although, even then, "Lion, Sun & Sword" did not start during Qajar, but it started way back during Afsharid Dynasty. However, "Lion & Sun" emblem goes back to Mithraism era & beyond. It goes back thousands of years BC, possibly about 8000 years old, but back then, it wasn't the official flag of Iran. "Lion, Sun & Sword" become the official emblem during Afsharid Dynasty.

For more info, stay tuned for Flag section of the soon to be published, new IPC Website.

[Graham Robert Pence Kent]

If only, you at "Iran Politics Club", really knew the "REAL STORY" of Zarathustra! If only, because looking at the timeline and your (Ahreeman X's) final conclusion I can see that you are way off, even though the correct date is given in your article for the birth of Zarathustra in 1777 BC?! Maybe I'm the only one to "decode" the historical and logical science based true date of Zarathustra? What is wrong with suggesting the GOOD Religion (if there is such a thing!, and there would be if you had faith in the correct date!) began in 1737 BC (as stated in your article?)???

I have found camel loads of information that relate the First King of Egypt Menes in 2267 BC to Noah's death and Zarathustra's death each 570 years apart from 2267! And Zarathustra was APPAPUS MEGISTUS, or has the same death date! 2837-570= 2267 -570 = 1797 BC = 80 years from 1777 BC. Ok. so 570 +570 = 1140 and 1777BC - 588BC (other date of birth for Zarathustra) = 1149 = 999 + 150. Menes timeline (Table of Eratosthenes) is 1050 years in lengh and it appears to be part of the source code to understanding the discrepancy in the birth of Religion itself. The year 2267 was 1999 year from a creation date (the creation date for the Egyptian Book of the Dead) in 4266 BC. From Usher's creation date of 4004 the same year 2267 BC was 1737 BC. This is because there are 262 years difference in the twin Creation dates. Another creation date in 4779 BC makes 2267 = 2513 years elapse. 2513 is the theoretical number attached to the four sun ages on the Aztec Sun Stone Calendar. Joshua's Long day and Zarathustra's New day are thus intimately connected by the mysterious 487 years between 1725 and 1238 BC. By the Aztec Creation Year 1238 BC = 4779 Creation Year. 1238 BC is exactly 499 years from the Creation of the Good Religion. The stone block in Tehran is the last clue to decoding this theory of mine, on it, is the depiction of what happened in 487 BC? I think this is 1238 BC, Zarathustra's Long NEW day. This is when the earth entered into the orbit direction we find today. Because the earth's orbit reversed is why timelines go in both directions and we have double dates in BC times. I am currently correcting the dates on the Aztec Sun Stone Ages. By the way the fourth world age probably began in 993 BC or 955 BC depending on a 38 year difference between Spanish and Christian calendars. In 2007, 3000 years passed from 993 BC. There are many more valid points that I can make that will change you RELIGION and your BELIEFs forever!!!! But what kind of person are you? The kind that is still learning, or the kind that "knows not". ?

[Atusa Qajar]

Hello Graham:

It is customary for a person entering a club to primarily say greetings and introduces himself, maybe go to introduction room and tell a bit about himself before right away jumping the gun, attacking the founder and ending by insulting the founder. Do you truly expect a reply from him?

Over here you can read the Updated Version:

Zoroastra and Zoroastrianism, the Real Story
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/philosophy/ ... /index.htm

In it, Ahreeman clearly wrote that this paper is his belief and final conclusion as a scientific historian. Ahreeman didn’t state that his belief is the undisputed dogma. You can believe whatever you want to believe with whatever reasoning which you back your opinion. No one is forcing you to believe Ahreeman’s opinion.

Reading your reasoning, it shows that all of your so-called scientific facts on Zarathushtra’s timeline is based on other religious texts’ timelines.

Ahreeman is not religious, nor believes that religious books are actual history. Zoroastrianism is also not a religion but a philosophy. Zoroastra was a philosopher not a prophet.

You are welcome to freely state your opinion on whatever you want and discuss whatever subject you enjoy and promote any religion or philosophy you desire because IPC is a democratic club and everyone has the right to free speech, even if they critic, bash and insult the founder such as you do.

Regards,
AQ

[Graham Robert Pence Kent]

Heaven High, Atusa Qajar


I bring warm greetings to the founder of this great site and I wish to apologize to both Atusa Qajar, and the founder (Ahreeman X, too if he is not the founder). As I wish to learn true history. I will feel honored that I may continue to discuss the birth and death of Zarathustra in your Persian Philosophies Room. I was feeling ahead of my time when I wrote a short and insulting critique of "the real story of Zarathustra"; this happens to me when I feel like I am on the brink of something new under the sun. After a few days I come back down to earth and realize am I not the only one with such thoughts on the evolution of our very human version of history? I enjoy the opportunity to "decode" that history; in fact I find it my obligation (by God) to do so. Let me just say,"There is something new under the sun". I wish to convey to any audience just what that something new is and so I am seem radical at times in my approach.
I struggle like everyone; lately I have been struggling over the numbers whilst I search to solve the riddles of the Aztec Calendar Stone. I am saddened by the disappearence of "my" black and white cat. I do not enjoy it, but i am angy at times; and i use that anger to solve mathematical enigmas.

I can introduce myself more to those interested; for instance I grew up with loving parents who still have an outhouse for a bathroom and solar power and they have a handpump to pump water inside the kitchen. I travelled to Chile in 1999 to study with the late Jose Arguelles who, as you may or may not know, started Earth Day and the Day Out of Time, every July 25th.

Jose Arguelles declared himself that he was the incarnation of Pacal Votan. I found out that my past life was intimetly tied to the mystery surrounding Pacal Votan and that is why in this life I was supposed to meet him and tell him that i am his (spiritual) son, Chan Bahlum of Palenque. To this day it is too much emotion for me to "argue" the validity of this. What I understand in this lifetime is a love for stonework and temple building and numbers and the Maya Calendar and really, all things relating to time.

I have considered that I am a prophet, but mostly a man with Zarathustrian-sized emotion? My temple designs are similar to the style of the Modern Fire temple of Kerman, Iran. I spent time in Boulder Colorado trying to find land to build "Planet Gyroscope", a circular temple healing arts center that rotates with the seasons to function as a "living planetarium" for the community. I still have this dream.

I hope to empower people of Zoroastrianism to understand how the philosophies and timelines of their "religion" are close to timelines of the other religions and/or philosophies of man.
One of the only ways to see this comparasion of time through another's eyes? The only way is to use a calculator and to allow your mind with God whilst you "google" your way in. Sometimes you will get clues along your journey to show you the way. For me these clues present themselves as numbers and I at times, jump to conclusions but this is only the man in me, whilst guided by God or the hand of God, you know, things happen in mysterious ways.

And so I am a mystery even to myself at times. The more I know myself, what can I say? ...the more I know (the) myself.

I would love to write more inspiring things in the future for people to read. I am sorry for any anger or distaste, or insult that may have carried (came with) my words and numbers. To the others, I am another yourself and I care deeply to take care.
Sincerely,
Graham Robert Pence Kent.

[Atusa Qajar]

Zarathustra, the Real Story Updated

Zarathustra, the Real Story
Zoroastra and Zoroastrianism



Enjoy good readings:

Zarathustra, the Real Story
Zoroastra and Zoroastrianism
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/philosophy/ ... /index.htm

Persian Mythology, Gods and Goddesses
3 Parts
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/culture-lan ... /index.htm

Faravahar History and Art Galleries
5 Chapters
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/art-literat ... /index.htm

Iran History Index
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/history/index.htm

Iran Online Library (Largest Iranian Library Online)
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/library/index.htm

[CR]

New Edition: Zarathustra, the Real Story


Zarathustra Spitmata Statue at the Efrin, Syrian Kurdistan, Syria

Zarathustra, the Real Story
Zoroastra and Zoroastrianism
http://iranpoliticsclub.net/philosophy/ ... /index.htm

[Nicholas Ginex]

Dear Dr. Ahreeman and IPC viewers,

I found the history of Zarathustra very interesting and was impressed with he being a poetic and philosophical thinker. The dissertation on this profound man was quite extensive but the summary by Dr. Ahreeman, provided below, is to be noted:

There is no doubt that there are some good decent High Zoroastrian Priests and Scholars out there, but the majority are businessmen! The scientific reality is that:

* God is a myth, an invisible big guy sitting up in the sky ruling the world that he had created!

* Prophets of God were all charlatans, some were ahead of their time and very wise but still charlatans!

* Saints and Imams were all Con Artists!

* Holy Men are all Businessmen!

* Worship Temples are place of business!

But in comparison, today, many Fire Temples, unlike other places of worship, do not beg for money to sell salvation! They state a lot of historical facts, teach a lot of good, and avoid mumbo jumbo miracles and story telling. Whoever wants to donate money, they will do it behind the scene and anonymous. There are many rich zoroastrians who support the Fire Temples.

Conclusion

Facts

I. Zarathustra was a great philosopher poet, ahead of his time.

II. Zarathustra was a great Persian and human being who taught us many goods.

III. Zoroastrianism is a Persian philosophy, not a Holy religion.

IV. There are only two people amongst the prophets, who have never claimed to be prophets of God, one was Buddha and one was Zarathustra. That's why I respect both of them as great philosophers and I truly have not much respect for rest of the prophets, thus they were a bunch of miracle sellers, magicians and con artist frauds. I respect Buddha due to my Martial Art philosophy of Kung Fu and Meditations; I respect Zarathustra because he was pure thought!

This has been a worthwhile but lengthy read and is why I felt it necessary to provide Dr. Ahreeman's salient conclusions above. I must say, the amount of historic dates and names were overwhelming. However, much appreciation for the efforts by the scholar, Dr. Ahreeman. The read reminded me of another historic book that resides in the IPC library, Future if God Amen (refer to IPS main page and select Authors - Nicholas Ginex.)

Thank you Dr. Ahreeman

Amen, Nicholas